Why Your Employees Aren’t Stepping Up to the Plate with Molly McGrath

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Melissa Shanahan: Welcome, everyone. to this week's episode. We are lucky, lucky, lucky, to have Molly McGrath back on the podcast. Welcome, Molly.

Molly McGrath: Oh, Melissa, thank you for having me again.

Melissa: Oh my gosh. Molly and I have gotten to know each other pretty well this year. And she is, for those of you who don't know who she is, you should go back and listen to the first episode, because it's awesome. We got a lot of good feedback on that episode. She is the owner, founder, of Hiring & Empowering Solutions, and does a lot of great work with law firms to get their teams dialed in.

Not in a way, which we'll talk about today, not like dialing in your team members. It's not like that, but making teams work in a really dialed fashion. And, she's the expert in that. If I ever have a question about team, whether it's a team member that I'm struggling to navigate and figure out what to do next, or if it's just a broader dynamic, she's the first person I call. So, we're really lucky to have you today on the show. Thanks.

Molly: Aww, thank you. It's, for certain, my “Why”.

Melissa: Ah, you can tell. Your energy is infectious around the topics that you talk about. Like, what we're going to dig into today, people will be able to hear it. And you are so fluent in how you speak about it, which is refreshing; it's fun to watch you. It's like you're in the zone every time we talk about it; was really cool.

Well, we titled this episode: How To Get Employees to Step Up and Lead. We could have gone a number of different routes, I'm sure we'll dig into many things, but I really like that we're going to start here. Because I know my clients and the members of Mastery Group, I know that they experience this. And, team is not something that I…

That's not what I address. That's not a part of membership or client work. Now, we talk through tension and things like that, but I don't have a prescription for them. Like, this is your jam. And so, I leave it to you. That's why I send my clients’ members to you.

But I do know that people who haven't worked with you experience what I experience sometimes, where it's like baffling to me, and it shouldn't be; there's no mystery here. But it’s baffling to me sometimes, why people don't step up in ways, or take initiative, in ways that it seems like I've paved the way for. It seems like I give them room to. And, I am on a learning journey with team development and leadership, so I love hearing from you.

I guess, let's just start there. You commonly hear from people, you said before we started recording, that people want their employees to step up and lead. And sometimes, they think, “I need to fix my team. I need to fix my team members.”

And that really, what they're saying underneath that, is, “I want them to step up and lead. I don't want to have to push them, tell them what to do next, like all of that.” So, I just want to let you riff a little bit on this topic.

Molly: Sure. I'll take the little bit part, because I could do this all day long. You know, I hear that over and over again. Way back in the 90’s, when we would go to legal conferences, we had a Key Assistant Training program. And it was developed out of that one statement, “I wish I could get my employees to step up and lead. I wish a staff, team…” whatever resonates with you.

The fascinating thing, to your point, I could give them every tool, every resource, like “Oh my gosh, are you crazy? Of course, I want to delegate this to… Of course, I want you to take this away from me,” what have you. But I always say, we have to remember we're dealing with human beings, first and foremost.

I constantly scratch my head, because as business owners, we invest in employees to help grow them up, invest in them so they can help us grow our business, etc. What I hear all the time, I'll be like, “Okay, Susie,” Bobby, whoever it is, “Your attorney wants you to…” And the core, core, core, wound or fundamental thing, is people are picking from their past.

So, they're coming from their last experience, of wherever they were, whether at a prior law firm, or wherever their historical employment journey comes from. And they remember, “Oh, I remember the one time I was told…, and I made a suggestion. I came with an idea. I asked why we're doing this.”

And whether it was the boss, or it was a coworker or what have you, they're coming from their past trauma of getting their head bit off, or “That happened before and next thing you know, I was fired,” or “I was laid off” or what have you. So, people are constantly picking from their past journey.

The flip side of that, is also for the employer that is holding on and afraid to delegate, subconsciously, and not really fully giving their teams the authority, the responsibility and permission. Because they say, “Yeah, I remember the last employee, I did that with. And I'm lucky I didn’t have a bar complaint.” So, I think everybody's picking from their past.

And the core thing, what I hear from employees, they're really lacking the confidence to speak up and to actually use their voice, because again, they're picking from their past, of what happened; that they're going to get fired, get yelled at, or what have you.

And also, they've seen what has happened for other people that have done that. So, for whatever reason, or experience, the person's no longer there. So, everybody is really white-knuckling this whole thing and walking around proverbial eggshells, because they're picking from their past, if that makes sense.

Melissa: Yeah, they're operating based on the experiences that they had previously. One of my core team members, before she came to work for me, she left an organization. I don't know the details, but I do know that for real, no joke, the way she describes it, is she has PTSD around certain things.

And she knows that I'm not like what she left, but there's still times where I'm like, you know, “What do you mean? That's totally fine.” Like, you know, I'll say something. And she'll say, “Wow, I am just so conditioned to operate the way that I had to operate for so long. And it’s still in me, you know, a year later. It still creeps out.”

So, I do see what you're saying. I mean, we're all human. And we're all trying to do the best we can. When you do get your head bit off, or when you're told you're wrong, you're told to be quiet, or you're told to stay in your place, because you're dealing with an asshole. And I know, all humans are doing the best they can, bosses included, but sometimes we act like assholes. So, everybody has those moments.

Molly: Melissa, it's not always the jerk factor. Sometimes, it's the thundering silence or the lack of action. So, I come to you and I, whether it's a… I love what you use with your PTSD employee, because we can talk until we're blue in our face, but I always say, “It's walk your talk,” you have to do that.

So, you give me your employees and you say, “Fix ‘em, Molly. Get them to step up and lead. Get them to do this,” that and the other thing. And then, I say, “Okay, great. This is how you're going to start facilitating the weekly level-10 meeting, or whatever it might be.

Or, this is how you're going to start holding your boss accountable, when you give them something and they miss a deadline; or they ditch a meeting or, you know, it's hair-on-fire clients pulling in the proverbial parking lot. And, we're trying to scramble to get their documents ready or whatever it is. Or, you know, we're not prepared for court or trial, or it's just a dumpster fire.

And you've already tried to hold them accountable, and then they may have barked at you, they may have ignored you, dismissed you, or what have you. Employees typically just shrink back and they're like, “Told you so. Proof of concept. Evidence that they really don't want us to step up and lead.”

I'm like, “Yeah, but okay, great. Let's go at it another way.” And people, you have to meet them on the same road. So, for the employers, for the attorneys, listening to this, to the leaders listening to this, kind of take a power of a pause. This is an exercise I'll give you all. If you feel like your team's not stepping up and leading.

You're like, “Oh, gosh, I wish somebody would just tick this off my plate. I wish I had somebody to delegate this to. But it's going to take up so much time, energy. I don't know how to train him. I don't have a system. I don't have the onboarding.” We all know how we feel, when we know we need relief. But it seems like such a Vietnam project, for how to even start unpacking it.

Here's my recommendation: Think of every single person on your team, right now; 1099, outsource contract, what have you. Really, on a scale of 1 rate where you think they are as a leader; a 10 is like, “Oh my gosh, they pretty much read my mind. They're always 10 steps ahead of me. In 1, I avoid them, because if I try to give them anything, they're trying to delegate backup, or they have 700 questions. Or, I give them something that goes into the black hole. Or, maybe, somewhere in between. And that, will tell you.

Because in my opinion, what I hear from employees, and I'm constantly training for the past 26 years, they lose sleep at night over you, over the client, over the calendar, over everything. They just don't know how to use their voice. Or, they have, to our point, used it in the past and had a negative reaction or negative response to it.

So, ask yourself where they're at? Are they just “yes” chicks? Are they nodding their heads in meetings, not bantering back and forth? Are they not clarifying and verifying? Are they not coming back to and really saying, “Hey, what about that?” Are they coming to you with proposed solutions?

If you're not having that, I always say, we have to start with us as leaders, and ask where have you really created that space for permission, responsibility and authority, for your employees to hold you accountable? To communicate with you and speak their truth and say, “Hey, you know, this isn't working,” or you know, whatever it might be.

If your employees are just yessing you. Or, you’re going to weekly level-10 meetings. I hear all the time, “These meetings are a waste of time, because I'm the only one who is showing up prepared. I'm the only one who's managing them, leading them.” Then, I always say, “It starts with us, as leaders.”

Really take a look at where you have created a place for people to speak their truth, and to come to. And then, when you take stock of that, my recommendation, if you're up for the challenge, if you're up for the challenge, is really to… And this is a perfect time of year to do that, as well.

Do an employee growth plan with each one of your employees. Now, they might not be honest with you in the beginning, but seeing where they see themselves one year from now. Ask: What is working? What is not working within the firm, from their perspective? If you're getting one-word answers, and they're not writing, pretty much, a dissertation.

Or, dumping the junk drawer out; proverbial junk drawer of like, “Oh, thank you for asking that question. I've been dying for someone to ask it. Because I have 14 things that I really have been chomping at the bit to discuss,” and refine, and improve, and process production or what have you.

That's when you know, you might have to conduct that stop/restart. That, you know, referee time-out. In regards to “So go the coach. So go the coachees,” and you might not be providing that really safe place for people to step up and lead.

Melissa: Mm-hmm. This is all so good. There were so many thoughts running through my head as you were talking. Well, one, you were saying it's not always the jerk factor. And then in my head, I was trying to figure out,… Because you said there's silence sometimes, or there's… Even if it's not intentional, though, it still feels like… Maybe, asshole is the wrong word. Although sometimes there is that.

Molly: Sometimes. Oh, yeah.

Melissa: Sometimes there is an incompetence that needs to be overcome. But it still feels like, maybe jerk, is the wrong word. But if you are silent, you know deep down, that's not how you would treat someone that you really care about. And your team, is everything. And so, there is still, in my head, I'm like, “Yeah, but you know you're not handling it, right.

You're not in integrity if you are treating with silence. You're not in integrity if you are… I forget the other example that you shared. It's like total jerk. Maybe, it's silence. Maybe, it was something else; that third thing that you mentioned. Whatever it is, still there's a lack of congruence that you're allowing to just be there. I don't know if that feels true to you.

Molly: It is. Because it's thundering silence. So, whether it's that you're blowing up on your team; whether it's right or wrong, indifferent, does not matter. But maybe, we all know. Are you a screamer? I have a tendency to be that.

And listen, I'm not saying change your personality. But there's a time and place. Even with my team, in our daily huddle, I said, “You guys, I need 60 seconds to blow some steam off right now, because I'm so frustrated. From my perspective, there's violation of process all over the place.” Even my own team.

But I've created, we've created, those ground rules, our number one core value. And within our ground rules, and this what we work on in the Law Firm Admin Bootcamp, is that we have upfront conversations, in real time. We do not hold on to stories. We do not hold on to stuff. And, we do not hold on to emotions.

So, I can bet you, every daily huddle that we have, somebody's coming in with a truckload of emotions; pissed-offness, frustration, or what have you. We're human beings. We're hiring human beings, versus human doings. And so, you know, I, my frustration, was I had Christine on my team, who just took on three new projects. And she was telling me yesterday, that she was at capacity and totally stressed out.

But then she took on three new projects, today. And I'm like, “Why are you taking on three new projects?” She’s like, “I don't want to not show up like a team player.” I’m like, “You're showing up like not a team player, because you're not project managing, you're not time managing, and you're not using your voice, right now. So, I just found out you took up on these three projects. Now, you can be stressed out. Now, you're going to get sick. Now, you're going to call off work again. And, it's going to be a vicious cycle.”

This is what I say to my team, “You have to plan your work, and work your plan. And no, is a complete sentence sometimes.” And so, when I say that, I'm not saying that we have to be perfect. You get to have that asshole effect, as long as you name it. You ask for permission to have floor time for it; you puke it out.

But the silence… What employees tell me in law firms, they call it “thundering silence”. They say that it is echoing through the building, everyone can hear it. It is just as toxic as a screamer. And not only that, then there's also withholding information.

Because I always hear, “The attorney so stressed out. We're all so busy.” And I'm like, “Guys, the second you're not busy, you're out of business. You are always going to be busy, always.”

And I don't want to get into management styles and things like that, but your teams see it. And they tell me every single week, in our Law Firm Admin Bootcamp, which is for them. We have open coaching hours on Thursday, and they will come, and I’m like, “Alright guys, what are you working with? Where are you jammed up? What's not working?”

I will have people that have asked, “Can I please type my questions, or what I'm dealing with, to you privately? And can you, please, make sure not to say my name?” Well, that's very telling. We have a big problem with culture, right there.

And they are just like writing a novel about, “I want to help my attorney. I see my attorney’s so stressed out. You know, I feel like I'm not carrying my value. I'm doing all the work to get it to a point, then I'm putting it on their desk. I’m waiting for them to review. It's been two, three weeks since I've gotten an answer on it. And, I feel like I'm not providing any value.”

So, it's not just their part in integration, it's a collaboration, it's a marriage. And constantly, week after week after week, for 26 years, to be completely honest, I hear from employees all the time, “I just want their time, attention and feedback.” And, what is the five-year-old do when they cannot get your attention? They're going to draw markers on the wall. They're going to raid your pantry and try to eat all the garbage. They're gonna do everything and anything to get attention.

The common thing I hear from people, “They're constantly delegating back up. I come out of meetings, and there's a line of employees waiting to ask me questions. They're constantly asking me questions. Molly, they gotta go, I'm going to fire them. They're not self-governing,” or what have you. I’m like, “No, they're trying to get access to you, is what they're doing.”

Melissa: Mm-hmm. That’s so interesting. I feel like I keep saying that, every time you say something. But that's really what I feel. So, first of all, thank you for saying that you have that tendency. You said, “There are some people who are screamers.” I have that tendency, and I work really hard to hold it in.

And there's two things I appreciate about what you said. One, is that you actually just asked for permission for a bit of space, like, name it. And the other thing, is that I've worked really hard to keep things objective and not personal. And the way you just said that, was so beautiful.

Because that is the stuff that pisses me off. It's never the person, it's never anything to do with them personally. It's the fact that… The language that you used was “process violation”. What is happening here? You know,  there are times where that happens.

I am on such a learning curve right now, with leadership. It is the biggest learning curve I've had since I had a kid, and I am open to it. I am willing to suck at it to get better. Like, I'm gonna have to just increase my awareness and start to see all the things. But everything you're saying, I really appreciate it. There are little nuances that…

And if anybody listening to this, if you feel like you're on a learning curve with leadership, then you'll probably be able to relate. But there's little things I'm picking up, that I wouldn't have picked up two years ago, certainly.

When you say, you know, “It's not just them that need to improve. It's not just you that needs to improve. It's an integration that has to happen.” And that's a neural pathway that just happened, when you said that. It's like, “Oh, that's a different way to look at it. That's really helpful.”

Molly: You know what I love? I want to hop on Melissa for you, because she just said something so critical that the hair’s standing up on my arms. I think we make it so hard on us, as leaders, employers, entrepreneurs. Like, “Gosh, this leadership stuff sucks. It's so hard. I constantly…”

I will see people all over social media, and they are chasing leadership. They're writing thousands of dollars for checks on leadership. You know, how to manage and lead a team, or what have you. But I think we overcomplicate it.

Guys, from my experience, this is a definition of leadership: Just show up, consistently, for your team. My greatest thing, the easiest way to get extraordinary, like an MBA in leadership, is to have a daily huddle with your team. And, I know it sounds like a lot. But when you show up there, and you have the opportunity to touch things once, in real time.

Everybody shows up, and they talk about; what worked, what didn't work about yesterday? What were my top three goals for yesterday? How did I do? Where did they get jammed up, where did they get stuck? And, why? Why do I think I did? And where do I need help? And, here's what I have for today.

That is, I mean, in essence, if you were showing up with available eyes and available energy; because I always say you're responsible for the energy you bring in the room, and you're responsible for the energy you leave in the room. I constantly say leadership is vulnerability. And leadership is sharing where you're at, where the vision’s at. And, that's it. It really, truly…

The best leaders… My team loves it when I show up and I'm like, “I am hot to trot, right now. And I need to dump this, because I don't want to carry it into a client meeting. I don't want to have had trash about it. I don't want to make up stories about it, what have you. I just want to dump it.”

I'll give you a perfect example. This week, in the open coaching hours, a team member comes in just bawling, bawling, crying, bawling, crying. And, this team member is always, constantly, visible. She has other team members from her law firm there. And, she shares stories.

She said, “You know, I'm just so deflated because my attorney told me that I am a drain on resources and time.”

Melissa: Oh, my God.

Molly: Well, hang on. Hang on. We unpacked it. And I go, “Okay, Katherine, let's unpack this real quick. So, when did the attorney say that?” And she said, “Tuesday.” I'm like, “Alright, today's Thursday.” She goes, “No, last Tuesday.” I'm like, “I need to calculate. Like, 10 days ago? And what did you do with that information?” And she said, “Well, I just walked out.” And she's still….

I said, “So, you're still physically and emotionally affected by this, 10 days later. Walk me through what happened, up into that.” So, long story short, the attorney gave her a project; very simple project. It was to document how to open the office and how to close the office procedure. You know, very, very simple.

She missed the deadline for the project. She didn't over communicate with anyone that she was, why she was, she was doing follow up calls from a workshop and booked the calendar solid, which means money in the bank. You know, she's doing other things that were phenomenal. But she didn't communicate.

And the reason she didn't communicate, was the attorney was not available. That attorney was in back-to-back to back-to-back to back meetings. And, she had questions about certain things that she needed to do. She got overtaxed because they just launched a big workshop. So, the inbound and outbound phones were crazy. They had two employees that were out sick. So, there were a lot of factors.

But I said to her, “Let's just go back to the facts. Katherine, you did not communicate at all. You did not fight for your airtime. You didn't even send a weekly, just a quick update by email or text, or smokescreen. However, you didn't say FYI: Here's my… So, technically, you are a drain on resources.”

Melissa: Oh, that is so good, Molly.

Molly: “You didn’t even communicate. Let's just strip the emotions, and go right down to the facts.” She's just like, “Wow, I did not even think that, at all.” I go, “Look at all this magic that you made happen. But the attorney’s completely stressed out. Gave you a project to do. Now, you have valuable time on her calendar for 15 minutes on Monday morning, to go through the process and you didn't do it. I would be upset, too.”

I said, “Now, let's fast forward all the way back to that time where she said you are a drain on resources. So, what did you do with that information?” She said, “Nothing. It was all I could do not to start bawling, crying. So, I just waited and then I just left the office. Then, I went in the bathroom and cried. And then, went back to my desk.”

I’m like, “You definitely carried all this energy to every follow-up call you did. Every client communication for the past 10 days. Because I could see it the second you entered the Zoom Room.” And I said, “Did you tell her all the things you were doing? Did you do a timeout, and just say, ‘Hey, real quick, attorney. Let's stop, because I'm really triggered by that right now. Like, I don't ever want to be a drain on your resources. Can I just share with you what I have been doing?’”

She's like, “No.” It didn't occur to her to do that. I'm like, “This is your homework assignment. You're doing that. I want you to send me an email tomorrow. She sent me an email, tomorrow. She's like, “Wow.” I’m like, “You didn't project manage it, you didn’t put time in it,” we listed all the things that went wrong from her perspective.

Was it okay for the attorney to say that to her? No, I don't know. Maybe no, the tone was crappy. It was a crappy statement in the heat of the moment. But we're human beings. And, I'm not lobbying for the attorneys to stop speaking their truth. We're stressed, there's a lot going on.

What I'm saying, is in the moment, when an employee does something that gives you pause, to say, “They don't have what it takes. They don't want to step up and lead. They don't care as much as I do.” Or, vice versa. If your attorney says something that's pretty junky; that's hurting your confidence, your spirit, your energy, and everything; you name it. Name it, in the moment.

Melissa: So, I did not see it when you first said… Partially because I was just shocked. That'd be really, that would never come out of my mouth, that sentence, like, “You're a drain on resources.” But to your point, one thing I really do believe, is that you have to separate facts from feelings. And I mean, you did that beautifully for her.

Because that is what it takes, to see where you can take some ownership and take the reins. Like you said, “Have the conversation. Make a timeout.” But also, I love the idea that anytime that you get criticism, you don't need to feel bad. You don't need to make it mean something about you as a person.

But it can be really a valuable exercise to just consider, where's the truth in the criticism? Like, just consider it, and be willing to see it and then make decisions from that place. It doesn't mean you have to... You're not lower value because any piece of it might be true. We were all here to learn, right?

So, I really love what a beautiful job you did. That is a gift. I’ve had a ton of training in coaching, from the best I would say. That is exactly what you're supposed to do with coaching, is to help them separate facts from feelings. And, help them understand how they just lived out the very thing that they're pushing up so hard against, which is what happened.

Molly: And, I think that's why employees don't step up and lead. I think they're afraid that one statement… Because when I peeled back the layer of the onion, she then starts saying, “Well, at my previous law firm…” I'm like, okay, there's the root cause. Because you're coming back to.

But nonetheless, you know, this is why employees don't lead. Because we're human beings, right? We get sloppy, we get messy, we get what have you. I'm a huge fan of one small step at a time. Attorneys don't like it when I tell them this, “You have to meet with your team more often. You have to remember that you're hiring human beings, first and foremost.”

We're all, most of us, are in the personal service industry. We are not fulfilling a widget in a box. We are not an E-comm. And so, it's about relationships. So, that interaction that we have at the water cooler side, by snarky conversations, or what have you, are translating over on the phone, in the work product, in the production, in the processes, and everything.

And so, I think for us, my biggest thing, is number one, invest in your employees. To let them know they have permission and to hold you accountable often, in spite of yourself. At the end of the day, that's leadership, right?

Especially based on your Kolbe. I know, Melissa, you're a huge fan of Kolbe. If you're a Quickstart making sure that everybody understands each person's DNA and how you're wired, how you like to give information, receive information.

Even when she said that, I’m like, “Let your attorney,” and their attorney, she's a 10 Quickstart. I'm like, “I'm not allowing that to be a crutch. It's not a hall pass. But at the same day, at the same time, you know,…

Because this would be great for leadership, right? If something happens or if somebody came to me on the daily huddle, or what have you, and said, “Hey, just wanted to let you know these were my top three goals for yesterday, and I accomplish none of them; zero, zip. I didn't do any of them. Here were my best intentions. Here's what I did. But let me tell you why.”

“And let me tell you what I did accomplish, in the meantime. I saved a $10,000 client from canceling. I protected, we had four upset clients because apparently, you know, our Zapier wasn't connected with the intake machine, or what have you. I found it out. I smoothed the waters. I was able to get them rebooked. I got them everything they needed manually. What have you.”

“So, you know with the three things I got derailed, which were creating a process for how we open and close the office, which is a priority, yes. Has it been on my list? Yes, forever. But I did these five things instead, and I generated $27,000 for the law firm yesterday. Are you sure? I'm sorry, attorney. Are you okay that I didn't type up that process?”

But your employees need to be trained on how to think and talk and act like a leader. And, they have it in them. I’m telling you; they tell me all the time. They'll tell me this, “My husband is begging me to quit this job, because I'm losing sleep. When I'm home making dinner, when we're sitting on the couch, supposed to be having family time, in my email.”

“We start having a conversation that's about, you know, our weekend, or what have you. And every single time, I turn the conversation into the law firm,” what have you. Your employees are losing sleep. And for some of you, you're not going to like this, they care more about your law firm than you do. And, that's their perspective.

Melissa: Well, when you’re saying they can learn... So, this is what you do, right? In Law Firm Admin.

Molly: I teach your administrative team how to think and act like an owner. To take ownership in their role. And you know, it's interesting, because one of the first, second, third weeks, I make them all pull out their job description.

Melissa: Mm hmm.

Molly: You want to know what percentage of them do not have a job description? They come and they're like, they bring it. I'm like, “That's a job ad you responded to. It's not job description. But okay, let's just start where we're at.” And so, I have them go line item, by line item, by line item, by their job description.

Tell me what value, and what the key performance indicator and metric is. Right down to opening the mail. Write down how many… I don't know about you. But so often, for law firms, the biggest frustration is the mail; inbound and outbound. Is it scanned properly? Is it saved to the right file? Are checks making it?

I have one… It's so often, in the 20-some years, I’ll have law firms that so-and-so leaves or were… They open up files, and there's checks that are sitting there that have never been cashed, from 10 years ago. Because we don't think that just our admin… The process of scanning a check and getting it from the place of the mail into the bank account; sometimes it's easier to solve world hunger.

Melissa: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because you're running this soon. I don't know when doors open, but it's soon, right?

Molly: Doors are open now. We're going to kick off on Tuesday, October… No. January 10th. At the new year.

Melissa: Okay. Oh, cool. Okay. So, if someone feels like, “Well, I like everything that you've said,” how long does it last? What should they expect if they put an admin through the program? What kind of expectations are there? I'm trying to think of just main questions that they might have. How long is the program?

Molly: Yep. So, you can go to LawFirmAdminBootcamp.com. See the agenda, see the guest speakers that we have, that also teach in there. But in a high, high level; 12 weeks. Every Tuesday they are live with me in class, and we are breaking down, for 12 weeks, how to become a legal leader leading a legal leader; how to have confidence, how to have competence, how to propose solutions.

All the things that they need, so you never, ever feel like you have to manage again; you're just leading. And then, on Thursdays, they do an open Q&A. So, I have paralegals in there, legal assistants, marketing coordinators. Many people that have virtual assistants in there, as well, because they are a member of your team. And they need the same kind of level of accountability, project management.

And then, on Thursday afternoon, they do a series. So, in January, it's going to be on how to create a referral system for your referrals. But for your intake coordinators, client service coordinators, what have you, how to manage your referrals. So, I've Stacy Brown Randall teaching.

And then in March, I'm doing all sales and intake. February. We’re doing all sales and intake, and follow up. And then, the last series, is going to be on lead generation and lead conversion. And then, I have my personal coach, Sarah Connell, from Thought Leader Academy. Which, she's done so much. She's just for my money mindset, and just like all of that. To come in and actually teach your team members about mindset.

So, the third Thursday of every month, is a whole class dedicated to getting rid of their stinking thinking, and to get their confidence, and get them thinking like a money magnet machine.

Melissa: Cool. Oh my gosh. Well, thanks for making an exception for me, to put someone in the Law Firm Admin Bootcamp. Because I have someone that's going to be going through your bootcamp, and I'm very excited. She is, too. So, it's gonna be great. And while she's working on stuff, I am too. Like I said earlier, just being totally transparent.

You mentioned earlier, good leadership is vulnerability. And that is something I have not had to be, like I need to be, right now. I think I had a warped sense of what it meant to be vulnerable. And, I'm learning how to do this.

Molly: Yeah. And showing up. Whoever wrote that book, Don't Ever Let Them See You Sweat, I'm going to clobber them, if I ever run into them. Because your team, when they see what you're going through every single day, they want to help. So, when you show up, and you just literally, even start with saying, “Guys, I am fried right now. I'm stressed to the hilt.”

They're like, “Oh, give it to me. Just start puking it all out. Tell me everything that's waking you up at two in the morning. Tell me what your stress is,” and they will go to bat for you. They will have your back.

And I hear that constantly, “I feel like nobody has my back, ever.” Well, they're sitting there waiting for you to communicate with them on what is driving you crazy, so they can have your back. And Melissa, it's just so amazing to me.

Leadership, from my perspective, is showing up consistently, and being real. And being raw, and sharing, and naming, where you’re like, “I'm in freakout mode, give me two minutes of floor time to just do a frustration breakthrough. Okay, great. Now, let's move on.”

And then, you will start to have your client service directors, your administrative team saying, “Hey, can I start to lead this for you? Can I take this off your plate?” And they'll start to see it, because most of us are small, boutique, midsize business owners. And our employees chose to work for a smaller corporation, the smaller firm, than maybe a big, big firm.

Some of you may be in big, big, firms and already have the leadership and the direction and the management. Whatever reason, whatever the why of why, why the employee took the position with you, to work for your company, to work for you. There was something that you said in that interview, something in your branding, your marketing, what have you.

So, go back to that. Go back to that, because I would bet my bottom dollar, you were real and raw somewhere during their decision-making process. And that's really, truly… People, they lock arms with humans, first and foremost.

Melissa: Well said. Well, I'm grateful for you doing the work you're doing. Because, you know, everybody's got their zone of genius. And thank God, for that. Because you have a zone of genius that I don't have. And I hope to develop it more and more. But…

Molly: That’s the cool thing, you don’t have to. Let your team develop it. Give your team… I'm not saying they have to go to my… Invest in them to get coaching. There is no shortage of CLE and coaching for attorneys, C-suite leaders, paralegals. There's nothing for the front-of-the-house. The people that are on the firing lines for you, while we're all in conference rooms and closing deals and serving clients, and what have you. They're just wandering around, like, waiting for somebody to give them permission to be a rock star.

Melissa: Mm-hmm. Yeah. This is so good. Thank you for coming on the podcast.

Molly: Thank you for having me.

Melissa: You’re a wealth of information. And anyone, every single person, members and clients, that has worked with you, you've changed things for them; materially changed things for them. And, it's such a gift. I love referring people to you because of the experience that they have. It's shape-shifting.

So, yeah, for anyone listening, if you don't know about Molly McGrath,  please, please, please, go to HiringandEmpoweringSolutions,com and just look around there. You have so much information through your podcast, through your blog; you have a blog on your site, I think. Correct?

Molly: Since 2008, I haven't missed one week. I love it.

Melissa: That's pretty remarkable. Just the offerings that you have. I think, you know, if nothing else, just listen to her and learn from her. And, you know, when it makes sense, use her as a resource for your team. And so, there's an opportunity to do that now, with Law Firm Admin Bootcamp. And I really hope each of you listening, if anything in here resonated, please just go and do it. The investment is well worth it. And, my team will be in there with you.

Molly: Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, Melissa.

Melissa: Thank you.

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Thank you for listening to The Law Firm Owner Podcast. If you're ready to get clearer on your vision, data, and mindset, then head over to velocitywork.com where you can plug in to Quarterly Strategic Planning, with accountability and coaching in between. This is the work that creates Velocity.