From 65 to 28-Hour Workweeks: Strategies for Scaling Back with Lauren Davis

I’m Melissa Shanahan, and this is The Law Firm Owner Podcast Episode #286.

Welcome to The Law Firm Owner Podcast, powered by Velocity Work, for owners who want to grow a firm that gives them the life they want. Get crystal clear on where you're going, take planning seriously, and honor your plan like a pro. This is the work that creates Velocity.

Welcome to this week's episode. I have another special guest on, and I'm really excited for you to listen in on the conversation that we're about to have. We've prepped a little bit for it, but we're just going to let this conversation flow.

Melissa Shanahan: Lauren Davis, thank you for being here. 

Lauren Davis: You're welcome. 

Melissa: Lauren, can you tell everyone who you are, where you are, and what you do, your practice area?

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. I'm an attorney and Mastery Group member. I work out of Virginia, Smith Mountain Lake, near Roanoke. I do all contingency fee work, so mostly medical malpractice and also personal injury. 

Melissa: Before we dig in, we were talking about what might be important for people to understand, before we really dig into the conversation we're going to have. Can you tell everybody a little bit about your path to becoming a law firm owner? What preceded that? 

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. The first firm that I worked at was a midsized firm in Roanoke. I had an incredible experience there. I was kind of put into the right group, in terms of practice group, right people, right time. It was just an amazing experience. 

And then, not realizing how much exactly I was working, I had the opportunity to leave that position for what was understood to be sort of a temporary clerkship with a judge that I had worked for back in law school. 

And so I left the private practice, went to the federal government, worked with him, and basically had a year to not only contemplate my career, but also have conversations with someone who had spent his career in the law and was choosing to retire early, which not a ton of federal judges did at that point. It just really gave me space to think and be more deliberate.

I didn't really have the idea of running a law firm on my mind at that point. I actually thought I would probably just go back to the firm that I had been working at. That was kind of the plan all along. But ultimately found a smaller more boutique firm that was a good fit, with amazing people. I spent the next several years there.

And then, really, it was COVID … just understanding the availability of remote work … that helped me to kind of develop a vision. And that vision was around work, but also around family and how I wanted to spend time on myself. And that's really what pushed me to think about and then start to plan for running my own firm.

Melissa: That is great. How many hours a week do you think you were working with the first firm that you mentioned, that you left, and then the clerkship? How many hours? You're smiling. 

Lauren: I think I probably tried to block that out. I don't know. I mean, I kept my time then, so those numbers are somewhere. But I would say 45-65. And it was sort of a heavy trial schedule. So the trials are definitely, in the trial preparation, they definitely pushed it up. 

I mean, I can tell you what it felt like. I was going in around 7:30 or 8:00 and staying till about 5:30, because childcare pickup was very specific about time. And then I was usually working after the kids’ bedtimes. Also many weekends. 

Melissa: How old were your kids at that point?

Lauren: Really young. So the first one I gave birth while working there, so it would have been the first three or so years of her life. And then for the second one, about the first year of her life. 

Melissa: So really little. So you were essentially a new mom. And you were working your waking hours, except when you had to get the kids and take care of the kids. 

Lauren: Yeah, I would say so. And that includes truly neglecting my marriage, which I wasn't really aware of until you do become aware of those things. 

Melissa: And we should say, you're still married to that man. So something got worked out. That’s great.

Lauren: I am. 

Melissa: Okay, so the reason I asked about the number of hours is because I think that some people listening have different thresholds and different life circumstances.

And you leaving, just knowing that wasn't sustainable, the priorities didn't really seem in line the way you wanted them to, is why you took space. Is that right? 

Lauren: I think, in part, that probably was somewhere in my subconscious. But to be totally honest, I loved the judge who extended the offer. And I think he saw something going on with me that I could not see. And I think it was one of… I mean, I could cry about it, actually. Because it was one of the greatest gifts that anyone gave to me in my adult life. Just that he could see that and extend that offer. 

Melissa: Wow. Okay. One of the reasons we mentioned at the top of the show, before we started recording, was what kind of background do you feel is important to share with listeners, given the things that we're going to be chatting about. And you mentioned that it's just the history and the space that you took.

And the reason I think … You can inject anything into what I share here or correct anything … But you are one of, maybe the most, of all the people I've worked with, you are the most intentional about the number of hours you work. I knew that you tracked this. But we just came off of spending two awesome days together for Mastery Group Live. And I was shocked when I saw the notebook that you keep your hours in. 

I mean, you track every hour you work. And you don't do it as you go through the day. But you kind of know the windows of time where you're at work, and you're focusing on work, and you're away from work, and you're not focusing on work. And so any window of time that you're focusing on work, you write in that notebook. 

And so I think, number one, I would love for you to share why that's been so important to you; important enough that you really stuck with this. I mean, your notebook is filled. It's probably just this year, of the notebook that I saw, I have no idea, but you have notebooks of this. And you and your husband built a spreadsheet to be able to track even further and deeper metrics around how much you work. 

So I would just love for you to share why is this such a thing for you? I mean, because everybody would say, “Yeah, I want to work less too.” But you have been very intentional about it. And you run your own firm as well. So I would love to just hear any thoughts that you have, now that I've just kind of opened up that box. 

Lauren: I think it all really started when I began working with you, so a little bit over three years ago. Because that was the first year that I opened the firm and I was doing whatever it took. I didn't have a lot of help in terms of team members. And hours wise, I was doing whatever it took to keep things moving forward, to try to get money in, and to feel like I was doing the best service for the client.

And then, about the time that I met with you, in the first conversation we had, you said, “Really, you need to get the IV out of your arm.” That, basically, my life was being given to the firm. I wasn't tracking my hours at that point and that statement stuck with me.

And then just the realization that the whole reason that I started the firm was to be able to make my life exactly what I wanted it to be. And it wasn't that. I know you’ve got to get it off the ground. I'm not giving short shrift to that at all. I don't think that I could do what I'm doing now then. 

But I know something about myself, which is that even from the first firm that I worked with, when we would go into, for instance, evaluations, the feedback would be, “You need better balance in your life, Lauren. You need to work less.” These are people around me telling me this. And so I knew that that was something I needed to pay attention to.

But what I've learned about myself is that I slip right back into my old habits very quickly if I don't keep my eye on it. And that was something that was an old habit, was just to work to get it done. Do whatever it took. And so if I wasn't being intentional about it, I had seen… I had, gosh, at that point, more than a decade, almost a decade and a half of experience to say, “This is what I will do if I don't pay attention to this. I'll just go back to my old ways.”

And so, to me, it was just a commitment that if I'm serious about this, then I have to pay attention to it, and I have to be deliberate. And it's like they say, “What gets measured gets managed.” 

And there are, 100%, days when there are a couple emails that come through late, or there are some small projects that I didn't get done, nothing that is going to hurt anyone if I don't do it, and I can tell you 100% that with this notebook sitting beside me, more times than not, I kind of look at it and think, “I don't need to do this. This can wait.” Whereas if it wasn't there, I can almost guarantee you that I would do the opposite, and I would just grind through and keep doing it.

And that little reminder every day, or even at midday, when I should be taking what I've chosen, that I want to take a lunch break or whatever it is, those little reminders are just very prescient for me and really help keep me in line. So it's just me… This is a long answer.

But what I would say is, it’s like when you go bowling with your kids and they put the bumpers up. And so it's not anything virtuous, it's just simply to keep me on track. Because I know myself. If I don't do it… Even now, after practicing this for this many years, I'm pretty sure I would fall back into it. Because I still, when I have a short week, holidays, or when you have a trial and you want to catch up on everything when you get back, there are so many ways that this shows up for me. 

So it's basically my check and balance system for myself.

Melissa: On that note, when we met in person for Mastery Group Live… I had decided, with the Mastery Group live events this season that we're doing, I am going to meet people where they are. In the past, we've had curriculum and something specific we were going to talk to everybody about, exercises we're going to lead everybody through. 

And this time, I approached it with, “Okay, what is top of mind for you guys? What do you want? What would you love to get out of this time that we have together? And I'll do my best to address it. Knowing there's more than one of you in the room, I'll do my best to meet you where you are and help you feel like you got something done you really wanted to get done when you get back on your plane and go home.”

And to my surprise, I did not think you were going to bring this up, anything to do with Monday Map / Friday Wrap, because you're so dialed with this. And I guess I can give a little more context there, but I'll just get this point out first. 

You're very dialed with Monday Map / Friday Wrap, as one might guess, because of all the things you just said. You're very cognizant about the time you work. And because of that, the more you have planned for that time you're going to work, the more you'll get done that matters; the work that moves the needle. 

So as one might imagine, you're practiced at that, and you continue to practice it, and you continue to get really just better and better, deeper and deeper. What you need evolves, and so you make shifts as needed. So I was surprised, though, that that's what you wanted.

You said that the two things that you want to center even more around, that you weren't centering around enough in your eyes, was time with your husband, time with your kids, and health. Now, to anyone on the outside, that sounds like she's doing all right. She makes sure she has her personal space. 

So I just want to know if you'll share two things here. One, your relationship to Monday Map / Friday Wrap, and what your practice looks like. Even if it's just kind of high level, what your practice looks like with this week to week. And then, the second thing, if you are that dialed with it, because you are, why do you think these things were surfacing that you wanted to address before you went back home? 

Lauren: So the first part of the question, about my relationship to Monday Map / Friday Wrap, is that without knowing it, I had sort of been moving towards something like it even at my first job. Because there were all these tasks, and it was just this question of how much time are they going to take me and when am I going to do them. 

And what that looked like at the time was, in Outlook, the Task List, just having them listed. And then it got to the point where I would spend 15 or 20 minutes a day, at the end of the day, reorganizing them so I would know the next day what I was going to start. But nothing was on my calendar. It wasn't anything as organized as like your true Monday Map process. But that was kind of the direction I was moving.

So your process felt like a really natural evolution to me, of what I had started doing and some other habits that I had incorporated based on a book called Getting Things Done. And so now, what it looks like for me is I took just a Word document, I have two columns, and I listed out all the places that I need to check each week. Kind of the steps that I want to go through in an organized way.

So in case management, the tasks that are there, the email, the things that really are tasks and I don't want to leave them in my inbox as a to-do list … I check three or four different places like that. Also the physical inbox. What mail do I need to process and deal with? What holidays or unusual events are coming up? 

And I just literally go through that and check them off as I go through the process. And now I use an app, called Motion, that we've talked about. It puts the tasks themselves onto my calendar, so I don't have to do that part of it myself anymore. Which is nice.

But my relationship with it is that it is another bumper for me. If I don't have those guards up and I'm not doing it, I feel the effects of that. It's not just my behavior, “Do I work later or not?” But it's also how I feel. I've tended to move toward doing Monday Map on Thursdays now. Because by about Wednesday, at the end of the day, enough new stuff has come in through the week that I feel like it's floating around. I don't know how urgent it is, when it needs to be done, and when it will be done. 

It's not on my calendar. And so it's almost like an itch that I have to scratch. Because if I don't feel settled, I just feel too discombobulated. I know there are things that aren't set in it, and it bothers me. 

So I think to some people, the way that I operate, it feels really constricting and full of these boundaries, and super, super structured, which it is very, very structured, but that's where I get peace and calm. And that's how I can move through the day without getting worried about what I might be leaving behind. Because, literally, my mind is clear. 

It's just what's the next thing that's popping up that I'm supposed to be doing. I don't like the feeling of having a bunch of stuff in my head just circulating. I like to be very clear headed when I go into the workday. Or, really, for that matter, with my family stuff, too. I don't like stuff to pop up.

Melissa: Yeah, well, that's the whole thing. To me, the most important thing, I think, about Monday Map is that you separate out. There is a place to plan. Which planning means using your prefrontal cortex, using the part of your brain for executive functioning and planning, making decisions ahead of time. And then when it's time to execute, it's just on to the next on to the next on to the next.

And it's efficient. You can keep moving because you're not having to find your place or figure out what's next or look for a resource or all those things. So I mean, it makes sense that it feels better when you do it the way you do it, because you experience a sense of flow or ease. Even if you don't feel like doing the thing that you're supposed to do, which we talked about that too. 

But there is a flow that you have access to, that you don't have access to had you not really thought through everything and planned it all out. So this makes so much sense to me. I do have a question. I'm just thinking of people who aren't super familiar with Monday Map / Friday Wrap. It's a process you can get to on our website. If you go there, there's a place for you to put your name and email in for this guide.

But it's called Monday Map / Friday Wrap. You don't have to do it on Mondays and Fridays, you can do the practice whenever you want. It's just a quippy name. So you do yours on Thursdays. And basically, Monday Map / Friday Wrap is evaluating the week you've had and planning for the week to come. And so you do that exercise on Thursdays. 

So when you are looking forward and planning everything … You mentioned that you used to have to-do lists, and you’re pretty organized about your to do lists. You would rework them at the end of every day and decide what you're going to do next day but nothing was on the calendar. So when you started putting things on the calendar, why did that make a difference?

Because most people listening to this do what you were just talking about. Maybe they aren't quite as organized about it, but they just keep these running to-do lists that they keep modifying. So what was the unlock for you by doing the calendaring of the tasks? I just want people to be able to hear this because most people will skip this step. 

Lauren: I think it was sort of a combination of two things. One is that on those to-do lists, I had columns for the amount of time it would take and their priority level. And I realized that there came a point where, day over day, most of the 15 or 20 minutes I spent at the end of the day to look into the next day was just moving things I did not get done that day to another day. 

So that got really irritating, because it just seemed like a waste of time. Basically I was just looking at the tasks I didn't get done, beating myself up over the fact that I didn't get them done, and then moving them to the next day. Only to repeat the process, probably for 80% of those things, the next day. 

Melissa: Wait, is that because … Sorry … you put the estimated time next to each thing, but you just weren't adding it up to see if it actually fits in a day?

Lauren: That, and I think overestimating what I could get done. 

Melissa: So does that mean underestimating in terms of how long each thing would take? 

Lauren: Yes, or things that I couldn't predict would come up. At that time, I did not have time blocked for calls or unanticipated meetings. That was an in-person office setting, so people always were stopping by. If you go to ask a five-minute question, and it's a 30-minute conversation, I wasn't accounting for those things at that time. And the to-do list, I definitely did not account for it. 

And remember, that was in the phase of, “Head down, Lauren's going to get it done.” That was my mindset. I didn't know any other way of working. So I definitely got frustrated by having to just move the same things over and over. And then, what really hit me, when I first put things onto the calendar, it hit me that, “Okay, the reason I'm not getting them done is because literally there's not enough time to do them.”

So even if my time estimates are correct, when you see it, for me, the visibility of seeing what I was asking of myself on a calendar, … Like, “When are you going to go to the bathroom? When are you going to have a meal? When are you going to do these just very basic things you need to do to survive from a physical perspective?” … it just made it really obvious what I was asking of myself was not reasonable. It just was unrealistic. 

Melissa: I really, I really wish everybody listening to this really hears that. If you sort of tuned out, I would rewind and go listen to what she just shared. Because I often say to people, to law firm owners that I get to work with on this. You've been running your own game for a long time, and so the practice of this can be frustrating at first, because it's a little slower. You have to think a little harder when you're planning and calendaring and things like that. 

But I want people to stick with it. Because if you don't, you end up defaulting back into running the game you've always run, and it doesn't work. That's the problem with it. Your game … Everyone, by the way. I'm not just talking about law firm owners. But for this conversation, that's what we're talking about ... that's just the human side of us.

We always tend to think we can get more done in the short term than we actually can. And that's because it's not black and white. We don't map it out. We just go at things and believe in ourselves to get things done. But if you really map it out, actually it was never going to work. It just doesn't work. So I hope everybody listening to this…

Because most people are really comfortable with that way of operating, really comfortable. And they're really used to dealing with the fact that it didn't all get done. They push it to the next day and push it to the next day. And it's really a crappy way to exist. If you've experienced something other than that, you can feel that difference. 

One question I have for you, that I know people are interested in because I'm interested in it, is… Okay, so you’ve got this notebook. You sit down every Thursday. Will you just paint the picture of exactly what this is like for you? First of all, with the book, is it sitting at your desk? Do you take it everywhere you go? Do you take it in your… Like, does it come from your desk into your purse, into your…I mean, does it move around or not? That's my first question. 

And by the way, guys, this is a 4x6 notebook, maybe. And so every day you just put in the working hour windows that you did. It's always after the fact. Correct? 

Lauren: No, I do it at the time.

Melissa: Oh, you log it when you're getting started and then when you finish. Okay, that's amazing. Glad I'm asking this. So yeah, talk about the notebook. Does it flow? I don't know, just say more, because I know people are going to want to do this. 

Lauren: Okay, so yeah, you got the size about right. And it's a notebook that I got at a bar event; when the vendors there and they're handing out things. It's nothing fancy. And on one side of it, I started by writing my hours. I just write them. I do have it with me most of the time, if it's any kind of situation where I think I might end up working. Because I don't want to miss it. If I don't have it with me, I think I'll probably forget it.

And then I feel like that's cheating, to not add. Even if it's just 15 minutes here and there, that adds up. So yeah, I have it at my desk in front of my computer. So in the mornings, when I start, I put the time that I'm starting. And I do it in 15-minute increments, by the way. So round up or down to the 15-minute increment. After I put the start time in, then I close it. I put it to the side. I do the work.

When I get up from my desk, I pick up the notebook. I put the stop time. I bring it with me if I'm going somewhere, or just leave it at my desk if I know I'm coming right back to it. And then just do the same thing the next time that I work. I try to put it in a place that just will remind me that it's there. Not just to put the entries in, but also because it's a visual reminder to me of my goal for working less. 

So I started on one side of the notebook that way. Then, on the very last page, I use that for brain dumping throughout the week. Kind of the Monday Map stuff that I may not think about at the time I'm actually doing Monday Map. But it's just like, “Oh, I need to think about this, plan for this, buy this present, do this for a team member,” or whatever. 

So it's kind of two things to me. That's how I use it. Does that answer your question? 

Melissa: Totally. Okay, that's great. Now tell everybody about your setup. When you sit down to do Monday Map, you have a whole setup for it. So will you share with people that? I mean, so much so that you could have done it with us and facilitated it. But you're like, “No, I need my setup. I'm good if I've got my stuff.” So share with everybody what that is. 

Lauren: Well, multiple screens that aren't laptop size, for one thing. I like to have the different apps that I use open; my calendar, the app that I use to put in, the actual tasks, and my email. And then I have the physical place for mail and other literal, physical things that I need to process. 

I just go through the checklist that I was telling you that I created, which also has at the top of it my word of the year. So last year, my word of the year was “fit”. So that's the thing that I see every time before I start this process. It's nice and has big letters. And then I start. 

They're literal checkboxes, because I like checking things off and crossing them out. And then I just go through each part. The first is to take a look at my calendar. I actually have on this list to calendar “me time”. Because if I just go through my calendar, I'm only going to move around the things that are already there. I wouldn't necessarily think to also then add in time for myself. So I make sure to have a checklist or a checkbox for that. 

I do my email that way. I do my physical inbox. I have my work email and Gmail as two separate things. And then I also have case management. Because, again, we have a task list in there. So I make sure that anything from that task list that needs to be Monday Mapped is. And then I also have a Trello board that I look at. 

And then, in Motion, which is, again, the app that I use to move the task list onto my calendar automatically, I go onto Motion and make sure there's nothing that's past due or that doesn't fit. Which then would tell me, in a kind of old-fashioned way of saying, “This doesn't fit.” But this is just AI telling me that it doesn't fit. 

And then that forces me to make decisions around, “Okay, what do I need to move? What can I move? Or do I actually need to work more this week than I had planned?” Just kind of looking at that as a last check. And that feels amazing when you get that done; no past due tasks. And then that's the end.

Melissa: Okay, cool. And you do put the time in. This is the other thing people always skip. You put the amount of time, estimated time, to get something done. So I say this stuff all the time, but I think it's good to hear it from people who actually… like law firm owners. I think it's just good to hear from people who practice this practice and it's not just me, as the instructor, saying this is what to do. You put the estimated times.

There are two questions I have. Where do you do that? Do you write it down or put it next to the thing that you have logged that needs to be calendared? Or do you just do it when you put it in Motion? Because Motion is your task list plus calendar; it calendars your tasks. How would you answer that?

Lauren: I add the time, when I put the task into Motion, also the priority, and whether it's a hard due date or not. So it's basically doing that thinking for me. Whereas before, I would have to think through, “How important is this relative to everything else?” It's just doing it because I've already told it how important the other things are.

So that has been a major mental load off of me because that was a struggle that I had with this process before. “Okay, look, everything doesn't fit, which thing do I move?” And that was hard. That was really hard. I didn't like the mental effort that took.

Melissa: Yeah, definitely. Okay. I guess one thing I'll say is you use Motion, Motion.ai I think is their site, Motion app. I don't know, you guys can look it up. You use Motion. And we all like tools, and new tools, so if anyone here is inspired and wants to go try out Motion, I'm not discouraging that at all. I think it's great. Lauren, it's been amazing for you. There's also another member that uses it heavily as well. 

Some people can't find their groove with it. So if that's you, if you get in there and try it and think, “Well, this doesn't work for me. This means I can't do Monday Map; it's going to be too difficult without it,” there are other tools out there too. So don't let that be an excuse to not do Monday Map well. Because you did Monday Map well before you had this tool. And this tool has made it even easier. 

So I just want to encourage everybody to, yeah, try tools, but don't let it be a reason if it's not working. If you can't find your groove with it, don't let it be a reason not to do this process. 

Yeah, okay. So the other question I asked, that now we can actually come back to, was about why those areas that you brought up and said, “I want time with husband time, with kids, and health,” feels like ‘I need to optimize for those things in a way that I haven't been.’ And as organized as you are, people might think, “What?” So share about that.

Lauren: It's sort of coming to me, as we're talking actually, that basically, what I've done is design my life in a way that I cannot sabotage it. So they're external things that are keeping me from self-sabotage. And I think that is what kind of happened around my scheduling block on my calendar. That I didn't have it top of mind, like my ideal week, I wasn't keeping that top of mind.

And so what would happen… Let's say I had a block from two to four that I was not supposed to be working one day, but it wouldn't be specified for anything in particular. And so if there were some nagging emails or small projects, then I would think, even subconsciously, “Oh, I'll just use that time for that, instead of the things that I've identified as priorities for myself.”

And I think what I'm realizing is that, probably for me, I'm going to need to look at the ideal calendar and be honest with myself about the extent to which I'm matching that pretty often. Maybe even, I've been thinking, maybe even as often as once a month. And maybe just including that in my Monday Map process about once a month.

I think that's really what had happened to me leading up to our workshop. I had just become very lax about that other time. And the ways that I knew that was showing up was if I would skip the gym, or if I would not be available for my kids the way that I had intended to be. Just little things like that. 

And they don't feel so bad when they happen once or twice. But then there's some point at which it's obvious enough that it feels like, “Okay, this has become a pattern, a trend, that I need to pay attention to again.” And so, when we were talking and you asked the question, I think it just became obvious to me that there's always… I could always do better at this. And in this particular case, I had kind of done some backsliding on it.

Melissa: Okay, yeah. And so the ideal week, that is basically your template for zones throughout your week, or certain kinds of priorities are funnelled, right? So there are zones for certain kinds of work, and there are zones for now. I don't know, it doesn't sound like they were in there before. But now there are zones for health or taking care of yourself. There are zones for specific activities or time with kids and husband.

And so it sounds like, if I'm just reflecting back what you said, you've fixed your template to create zones for the things that you feel like you thought were going to just happen, because they do matter to you, but they weren't specifically slotted. And now you've specifically slotted them. Is that correct? 

Lauren: I mean, it's even worse than that. I can self-sabotage next level. And what I mean by that is, I do have those events on my calendar. I have training time on my calendar. I put date nights on my calendar. I put family time on my calendar. And yet, I would just ignore that, I think, because I wasn't keeping it all top of mind. It was so easy to just go into Outlook and delete that one event.

And again, you think, “Well, I'll just do it this one day and it's no big deal.” Until you realize, “Oh, I did that all three times that that event was supposed to occur this week.” I think we have different seasons of life, but then within that, within a year, and especially now coming into the holidays, I can feel this, that the ideal week doesn't get met.

And I can give myself grace for that. I'm okay with that. But I think if I just keep using the same ideal week, then even if I'm doing it perfectly, I'm not really moving forward to reflect the new season that I might be in. So one of my goals is around working fewer hours. So if I keep using the same ideal week that has more working hours in it, I can't get to the next step of working less than that, because my ideal week doesn't reflect that. 

And that's why I'm saying I think I realized I need to just schedule, to review it, every so often, to be sure not only that I'm honoring it the way that it currently is, but reflecting any iteration that I'm moving toward in terms of my schedule. 

Melissa: So what did you do specifically, at the event where we were working together, what did you do specifically that is teeing you up for more success moving forward?

Lauren: Well, I did it, but after your strong insistence. Which is to look at my blind spots in it. So where I was likely to fail, based upon what I had originally set up. What's going to come up, that I may not know all the ins and outs of what it will look like, but I have a pretty good idea that some things will come up.?

And how have I allowed for that in my schedule, so that it's not something where every day is going to be a wreck, and I cannot conform to what I say I want to do? Really, I think, doing that over and over. Like, “Okay, here's your first draft.” I guess, kind of like revising a piece of writing. “Here's your first draft. Where are the really obvious things? You left out a period here. You've misspelled this,” or whatever. 

And then, the next step, of, “Okay, where could your grammar be tighter? Where could your sentence structure be better?” You know, next level. “What about your overall content and theme?” Just kind of you pushing me to think through the obvious and maybe not so obvious. And then very high level, but very meaningful things to make the calendar that I've got, or the ideal week I have right now, anticipate those issues and be the best it can be at this point. Recognizing that I probably have to adjust it again.

Melissa: I wrote down a note. You said, “You were being pressed to the point of failure.” Your ideal week that you had made, we kept working with it so that you kept pressing it to points of failure. And I thought, “That's such a good way to say that.” Because that's the job. I mean, it feels so good to make a plan that we don't think is doable but, really, it is aspirational and it feels so good. It just looks so pretty and we thought through it. 

But really, if you do press yourself to anticipate the barriers, “What would make this go wrong? What kinds of things would throw this off? When is this not going to work?” That kind of stuff, it helps you identify or get clearer and clearer about, A- is it set up right? And B, how do you prevent or hopefully eliminate the barriers? Can you do that by adjusting your plan that you've made? Or do you need to reset expectations with people around you? There are different ways to address this. 

So I really appreciated the way that you said that, just keep pressing it to find the points of failure. So yeah. 

Lauren: And I think, if I may, life sort of shows you that… Like when you first asked me the question of ‘How's this going to fail? What's not going to work here?” my first thought was, “Okay, let me project forward, with my imagination into the future, and imagine what might happen.”

But then, very quickly, it was like, “I don't really have to imagine anything, because this happens every day. Things come up every day. All I need to do is just look backwards, and I can make a list of these things that I need to be accommodating for.” 

Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. That's so true. You don't have to come up with things. You’ve just got to have a look at the way things normally run. Yeah. Okay. So you're feeling good about your new template for your ideal week and how you'll sort of get things in line in a way that makes sense. I would love to now talk about the number of hours. Are you comfortable sharing that? 

Lauren: Yes. 

Melissa: Okay, good. I'm asking because you're like, “Do I tell people that this is what I work?”

Lauren: It'll hold me to account, I think. 

Melissa: Okay, good. Yeah. So when we first started working together, what was your goal back then, for number of hours?

Lauren: So the first time was … I made an annual goal for this in 2022. And my goal originally was 1,350 hours a year. 

Melissa: How'd you get to that: 

Lauren: I don't know exactly. But I didn't meet that goal. I had to adjust it. 

Melissa: What does that mean per week?

Lauren: I think that was around 20…. Oh, excuse me, 30

Melissa: 1,350 divided by 52 or 48?

Lauren: Yeah. 52. 

Melissa: It's 26.

Lauren: Oh, wow. I was really optimistic. 

Melissa: Okay, so 26 hours was the weekly goal, if you divide your yearly goal by 52. And I'm using 52 because … You don't work 52 hours a week, but you wanted that to be your average amount per week.

Lauren: Exactly.

Melissa: So anyway, okay, so 26 hours a week. And you were very far off from that? You tried but failed? 

Lauren: Yes, I failed. But that year, I ended up at 1,550, which felt like a big win after the first year of starting the firm and what that felt like.

Melissa: Yeah, so that's 30 hours a week. And that is a big win. Did you have a team? What kind of team did you have in place then? 

Lauren: At that point, we had our client specialist who was sort of intake and admin, and then a paralegal.

Melissa: That's it? 

Lauren: Yes. 

Melissa: Wow. Did you have trials, less or more, or just an average amount that year? 

Lauren: Average that year. That was a year that I was traveling for a good bit of the year, like 10 weeks.

Melissa: For personal fun. 

Lauren: Right, for fun. 

Melissa: Yeah. Okay. So then in 2023, what happened?

Lauren: Then, in 2023, I knew that the trial schedule was heavy so I set the goal at 1,700, which would have been 33 hours per week. And I did meet that; I ended up at 1,695. That did feel hard. 

Melissa: Yeah. How many weeks did you take off that year? 

Lauren: Unsure. 

Melissa: Okay, like 10? 

Lauren: Oh, no, no, no, no. This was…

Melissa: Not like the year before?

Lauren: No, it was a very heavy trial schedule year. So I don't know that I had anything more than maybe a week or two here or there. 

Melissa: Okay. And then, what's this year been like so far?

Lauren: Okay, so this year, my goal is 1,450. And that is a 28-hour week over 52 weeks. And I'm currently on track to be under that. 

Melissa: Okay, great. And what's your team like now? We should tell people that. 

Lauren: So now we still have the client specialist, a paralegal, an additional person who shares overflow responsibilities for both those people, a virtual assistant for systems and processes, and another attorney.

Melissa: And that attorney does mostly PI, is that correct?

Lauren: Correct. 

Melissa: And you are MedMal really, almost exclusively? 

Lauren: Correct.

Melissa: Okay. So now, tell me where I'm wrong or fix something I'm saying. When you came in, to this event we were working together, you said, “I want to get to 20 hours a week. But I think that'll take…” I don't know, it was some number of years. What did you say? 

Lauren: My idea was I would incrementally get there.

Melissa: Yeah. Okay. But then, through talking, we just decided, what if you made your ideal week, and your template, so to speak, fit that now. And so I don't remember exactly where you landed. So maybe walk people through. It was a bigger jump, but you pushed yourself to do it just to see what would be possible. And yeah, so share more about that.

Lauren: Yeah. So it's a little early in the year, but I did your Reflect and Get Clear workshop and had thought that… I pretty well landed on my word for next year, “To be bold”. And so I was coming into the time with you knowing that. And it felt as we were talking, that trying to get from 28 hours a week to 20 ... So pretty much a 25% drop … that felt bold. So that was a big part of it.

And I think that sounded really nice to me. I liked the idea. And then, the first version of my ideal week, again, I self-sabotaged. So when you said count up your hours, I was like, “Oh, that's 28 and a half hours.” I really had not changed anything. 

Melissa: Yeah. I mean, how do people… People will feel like this, right? Even if they're trying to do 45 hours, they will feel like, “Well, this is what it's going to take.” So how did you mentally push yourself to say, “No, I'm going to keep trimming. I'm going to…” and you're really committed to that. So what does that look like? How did you think about that to trim further? 

Lauren: I would say two big things. One is thinking about how motivated I am to have more time for other things. How much I enjoy being able to spend time on those things and not be rushed or hurried. Not rushing into time with family, but actually having space to be really present with them. And that was super motivating for me, especially when I'm taking time off the ideal week calendar. So instead of putting work there, I'm putting family or self-care. That was one part of it. 

And the second part of it is, I think math. Again, just looking at it as a problem to be solved. Being excited about figuring out how to solve that problem. I guess, maybe, perspective, right? Because I think I could have felt really anxious or tied in knots about ‘How am I going to do this? How am I going to do this?’ But it felt like a real opportunity. 

Really, especially after we had gone through the exercise of ‘Why won't this work? Fix it so it will work. Okay, next level. Now why won’t it work?” Once we had gotten through that, it felt, I want to say realistically, it still feels like it's going to be hard. But it feels realistic for most normal weeks of the year. And that just felt really exciting. It still does. It feels really exciting. 

Melissa: What did you trim off? 

Lauren: Well, I think that was a conjunction with the work from the next day, which was realizing that there are so many things I'm doing that I don't need to be doing.

Melissa: Oh, I forgot we even did that. Oh, yeah.

Lauren: Even the things that feel good to do, that I kind of like doing but really shouldn't be on my plate. If I'm being serious about my goals around how much I work.

Melissa: Okay, so for everybody listening, I forgot about that. Lauren has an accountability chart. We worked with her, almost two years ago now, to create an accountability chart for her firm. And accountability charts, those are no joke. They're not easy to do. They're hard. They're hard to do. 

And I've met people that think… They're really advanced. Just recently, I was talking to a $5 million firm, and they have an accountability chart. “Okay, great, send it over.” They send it over, and it's like, this is not an accountability chart. This is an org chart that tells you who sits where, in terms of who reports to who. Accountability charts are deep, and they're thorough. 

And so Lauren has a really good one. What is very clear on there, all the things Lauren does, they're all listed there; all the things that everybody does is listed there. And so were her initials… Everywhere her initials were next to something that she actually does, we put it into the DRIP matrix, which is from Dan Martell's book. We really focused on the “delegate” and “replacement” quadrants. But then, even more so, more heavily, we just focused on “delegate”. 

And there was… Do you remember how much time was in there, that if you got off your plate, which you could get off your plate because it's in the delegate square/quadrant, do you remember the number that it added up to? 

Lauren: I don't remember. It's so embarrassing what the number really is.

Melissa: I feel like it's normal. Everybody has this. 

Lauren: I think it was around 10 hours a week. 

Melissa: Yeah, I think you're right. It was like 9.3 or something. The hours every single week that would be reduced, if you actually delegated everything that is in the delegation quadrant.

If what I'm saying to some of you is just over your head, and you're like, “What is she talking about — accountability charts, the DRIP matrix?” It's just things that I've pulled together over the years learning from other people and trying to help the people I work with. 

So if this feels like a little too much, just skip the details and get the point of what we're saying. But through the work we did, we discovered there were about nine, between nine and 10, hours every week that you'd be freed up.

And so when you realized that, you then immediately knew who’d you would hire for those things. It was someone that was part time that you could offer more. So you're going to make that job offer to them, and you're going to train them on all these things that are in the delegation quadrant and get them off your plate.

And if you do that, then your template felt like it would be possible. Is that correct? 

Lauren: Yes. And it was very coincidental that that number, I'm just realizing now, is about the same as the difference I'm trying to get from between this year and next year, from about 28 to about 20. 

Melissa: Yes. Whatever you're comfortable sharing, I wish people could really understand we're talking about potentially moving into 20 hours; your work week would be 20 hours. This year, even if we use the 28, whatever it fell on, you have a lot of income in your business. You don't have this tiny little firm with slim margins. You have real income, and really good margins for profit and things like that.

I don't know if you want to say anything about that, because I do think you're really deliberate on that. And I think people think, “Well, you're if you're deliberate with your time, and you're going to pare it back to that, then it's impossible to be very successful.” And I think you've proven the opposite to be true. What do you have to say around that? 

Lauren: I think that my focus was not and has not really been on revenue. Other than I want to… Of course, I don't want to be running in debt. But I think the main focus of starting the firm wasn't revenue. That hasn't been a thing for me. I've often wondered if that has something to do with the results. Sometimes if you hold on to something too tightly, you suffocate it.

And so I've never really held onto revenue as a goal. In fact, every time that we do the Strategic Planning retreats with you, that's probably the thing I struggle with the most, is setting a revenue goal. Because it's just not the thing that's driving me. I feel very fortunate that I've been doing the kind of work that I do; since the beginning, the absolute beginning of my career.

And I know that not everybody has that opportunity. And I think that I benefit from that, in terms of how we get our cases. Because we do have that experience level. But I really think, if I imagine that money wasn't an issue, and revenue wasn't an issue, and you can just make decisions about how you want to spend your time in the firm. Separate from that kind of dream, in a way, that maybe that has allowed the firm to be successful, in part. I mean, of course, you have to do other things, too. And the cases have to be there. But I don't like the idea of holding onto revenue as a goal too tightly. Does that answer your question? 

Melissa: It does. And I'm glad you said this. Because not every single person we work with has a revenue goal. But they do calculate projections of what it's going to be and what it's going to look like. And you're able to do that. It's harder for contingency fee practices to do that than most. But you still can. And you have done a good job with that.

It's not like you're ever just flying blind. And just like, “Well, we'll see where we get.” You're super organized, in tune with the numbers of the business, and very intentional about the investments that you make in terms of team and the efficiency that's happening inside of the firm. And you can tell me where I’m wrong. I don't want people to get the idea that you just don't… that doesn't mean that you don't pay attention to the numbers. You're very tuned into the numbers.

It's just that for you and where you are, from the beginning, you made decisions so that it wouldn't put a lot of pressure on a certain amount of revenue coming in. So it did start with just mainly you. And you got ramped, you eventually hired a paralegal or client specialist and then a paralegal. And then eventually, you got to a place where you had an associate. 

You did things as you could, and you knew that you could, because you were so in tune with the numbers and what it was allowing you to do. And with enough leeway where it wasn't dependent on, “Well, we better win every case this year or I'm going to have to fire people.” You never put yourself in that position.

So I just want to make it really clear, you've been very responsible with the numbers. I do think you're right. I think some people cling too tightly to revenue in general, and that's just not the point. But you are a business; we are all the stuff we work with. It's a business, you do have to understand the revenue. But as long as you have something you're shooting for really, specifically to me, that's all that matters.

You understand your revenue. That's all that matters. So I just wanted to say that in case people… I don't want people to get from what you're saying that that's an afterthought. It's not an afterthought. It's just not something you set a goal around and cling to too tightly. Is that fair to say?

Lauren: Yeah, I think that's really fair. I didn't even think about coming across that way. I think, not to geek out too, too much, but the reason it's been important to know the numbers is because then, when hours have been more than I want, it gives me some context.

So I can sort of say, “I went over my hours, but I can see the corresponding benefit and revenue. So therefore, I'm not upset about that.” Whereas, if I worked a lot more than I expected but then the revenue wasn't there, then I would have to ask myself why that was. 

And really it was hard for me in the beginning to spend money. I'm not a big spender. In general, I tend to be more fiscally conservative. So hiring has been the thing that I've historically been most nervous about doing. But then you see the benefits. You really see the investment over time. And I feel 100% certain that I could not be sitting where I am right now, in terms of hours worked or revenue, without having the team support that we have. I feel 100% certain about that.

Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm curious if you'd be willing to give people listening a sense of how healthy your business is? Because it's really impressive what you've done over the years. Can you share maybe people-cost percentage and net profit percentage as an example? Just to sort of show where things are for you at this point.

Lauren: Yeah, at this point, and I'm going to emphasize that, because when we were making hires and growing the team, these numbers looked really different. But right now, our people cost is about 28%. And our profit margin is about 60%.

Melissa: Yeah, which is great. And next year ... We're going to do Strategic Planning in December … have you thought about where you expect the people-cost range to be, depending on what might happen with cases next year? 

Lauren: I wish I could tell you I had, but I haven't done that yet.

Melissa: No, that's all right. You'll do it when we have our retreat. I was just curious if you'd already gotten there. But for everybody listening, that's something she'll think through. And everybody here should think through that, too, for themselves. Okay.

Well, I had plans to go into other stuff with you, but we have been talking for a while. Which has been super fun. Thank you for giving your time. You only have 20 hours in a week that I can slide into here, so this is awesome. Thank you very, very much for being willing to share with everybody.

Lauren: Yeah, it goes without needing to be said, but thank you for everything that you do, too. 

Melissa: Oh, my gosh, you're so welcome. Lauren, by the way, slid into Mastery Group… We used to offer lifetime access. You pay one time, and you never pay again. And we were just talking about that the other day because we don't have that anymore. And she's like, “I feel so lucky I got in.” I'm so glad you did. It's so fun to work with you. 

So hopefully that goes to show that if you're thinking about if we can help you and all that, come and join us in the Mastery Group. We can definitely help. We work hard with people. 

It's been a blast to work with you. So thank you so much, Lauren. It's so cool to see your journey, how far you've come, and the things that you're navigating mentally now versus the things you were navigating mentally back then. It is so different. I mean, that's true for everybody when you really do work on this stuff. But it's so cool to see.

Any last things that you just want people to think through, as law firm owners, as your fellow law firm owners? 

Lauren: I don't want anyone to be left with the impression that I've got it all together. I struggle with things every day, all the time. And it's not easy. And just because it's not easy doesn't mean it's not worth it. Whatever the veneer appears to be, just know that we all have the things that we're working through.

Melissa: Yeah, I am actually glad you said that. I think you'd be comfortable with me saying this. And if not, we'll totally cut it out. But it's really important to you to be organized, right? It seems more than most. It's something that is a superpower. But it's also something that can be… There's a shadow side to it, as well. I don't know if you want to share anything about it. 

Because, I mean, you're a lawyer, and there are other lawyers, and lawyers have this tendency. So I don't know if you want to share how you would describe your m.o.?

Lauren: Yeah, that really is right. They say your greatest strength can be your greatest weakness. So yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'm compulsive, but I definitely am to some people. I'm very specific about boundaries and how I spend my time and wanting to have a plan. And I think that the best thing for me is that I'm surrounded by some people who, in particular my husband, who's not that way. 

And so even though it drives me a little crazy that he's not, it's very healthy for me to see the opposite. I think if we were both the same, it would be really, really hard. But I think the bigger point is recognizing how that strength can show up in negative ways. So that if it does, I'm not totally blindsided by it. It's something that I would sort of anticipate. 

And also just being really grateful that there are things that we all have as gifts that work for us, and not poo-pooing them, because sometimes they make life a little bit harder. People see things in us that we don't see. For instance, the thing about organization. There are people I don't know that well who have made remarks to me about my level of organization. Which has made me open my eyes a little bit to how obvious it must be to everybody else. 

Melissa: Would you call yourself a perfectionist? 

Lauren: Recovering perfectionist. 

Melissa: Yeah, totally. Gosh, I mean, so many people can identify with that. And that can be really… I've seen you at points where it's really frustrating for you. I've also seen you at points where there's a look on your face. You were like, “Ugh, that feels really hard, Melissa. I don't think I can do that,” because it's veering a bit from this symmetrical way of having things organized. 

But you stretch yourself, and you have a lot of self-awareness. That's what I'm trying to say. You have a lot of self-awareness around it. And I think that's the reason you continue to evolve your own success. It’s because you have that awareness and you're willing to work with it a bit. It's cool. Ah, thank you for being here. 

Lauren: You're very welcome. Thanks for the invite. 

Melissa: Absolutely. 

Hey, you may not know this, but there's a free guide for a process I teach called Monday Map/Friday Wrap. If you go to VelocityWork.com, it's all yours. It's about how to plan your time and honor your plans. So, that week over week, more work that moves the needle is getting done in less time. Go to VelocityWork.com to get your free copy. 

Thank you for listening to The Law Firm Owner Podcast. If you're ready to get clearer on your vision, data, and mindset, then head over to VelocityWork.com where you can plug in to Quarterly Strategic Planning, with accountability and coaching in between. This is the work that creates Velocity.