The Psychology of Getting It Done with Eileen Kendall

Towards the end of May, Eileen Kendall was running her firm essentially alone. With her associate out sick and no paralegal by her side, this was her breaking point. She was so overwhelmed she was close to shutting the doors to her firm, but she decided it was time to shift the game and get her house in order.

Eileen Kendall is the founder of Kendall Law: a real estate and business litigation firm based in Torrance, California. She’s been a private client of Melissa’s for a couple of years now, and is known for making moves quickly to get better results faster. Her unrivaled tenacity has helped her level up her firm in all aspects, and she’s sharing her story with you today.

Join Melissa and Eileen this week to hear what it takes to build a get-it-done mentality. Eileen is letting you in on her firm-building journey, why she believes failure isn’t an option, what she found most challenging about growing her business, and how she works hard to never fall short or back off from her goals. 

If you’re a law firm owner, Mastery Group is the way for you to work with Melissa. This program consists of quarterly strategic planning facilitated with guidance and community every step of the way. Enrollment opens August 7th, 2024, so click here to join the waitlist right now to grab one of the limited spots!

If you’re wondering if Velocity Work is the right fit for you and want to chat with Melissa, text CONSULT to 201-534-8753.

What You’ll Discover:

• What Eileen’s firm-building journey has looked like.

• The best things that came out of Eileen working with Tara Gronhovd. 

• How learning to delegate freed Eileen up to get the most important tasks done.

• The action plan that helped Eileen get out of overwhelm.

• How Eileen ensured a smooth onboarding process for her new hires.

• Eileen’s thoughts on wasting time, and how she works hard to never back off from her goals.

Featured on the Show:

• Create space, mindset, and concrete plans for growth. Start here: Velocity Work Monday Map.
• Join Mastery Group's waitlist.
• Schedule a consult call with us here.
• Eileen Kendall: Website | LinkedIn
• Tara Gronhovd
• Bibi Goldstein
• SharePoint
• Lawmatics

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I’m Melissa Shanahan, and this is The Law Firm Owner Podcast Episode #268.

Welcome to The Law Firm Owner Podcast, powered by Velocity Work, for owners who want to grow a firm that gives them the life they want. Get crystal clear on where you're going, take planning seriously, and honor your plan like a pro. This is the work that creates Velocity.

Melissa Shanahan: Welcome to this week's episode, everyone. I'm so glad you're here. We have a guest that you are going to get a lot out of listening to today. Eileen Kendall, welcome to The Law Firm Owner Podcast.

Eileen Kendall: Thanks, Melissa, for having me. I'm really excited.

Melissa: I am too. So, Eileen is someone I've worked with for, it's been a few years. I'm trying to think of when exactly 2021, maybe?

Eileen: Maybe, I don't remember either. I didn't have any numbers at the time, so probably.

Melissa: Yeah, I mean, what was the year that you went from like $300,000 to $900,000?

Eileen: Yeah, I think that had to have been 2021-22.

Melissa: Yeah, okay, so that's when I met you, because you were in the middle of that. Which was insane growth. You were trying to keep the wheels on with the firm. But let me just say, I've had the pleasure of working with you since then.

You've been a private client for a couple years now. And, man, what a privilege to witness the journey you've been on. And what an honor to get to work with you and your team, and see how you have steered this ship. It's been nothing short of remarkable, just such a joy to work with you, and I'm so glad you're here today talking to everybody.

Eileen: Thank you. It means a lot for me to hear that. I mean, like I said, when I started with you, I dabbed my foot into the Mastery Group, and then we went into the circle with eight, and then I fastly went into… and that kind of leads into our topic; I move quickly, right?

And then I was like, no, but I think I want to be a private client. And it's really changed everything about my practice, by being able to work with you.

Melissa: My gosh, that means the world to hear. Okay, let's dig in. I guess to give some context, do you want to tell people where you are and what you do?

Eileen: So, I have a private practice. Kendall Law is a real estate and business litigation firm in Torrance, California. About 75% of our practice is working with landlords, and as my good friend Jeff would say, “Kicking little old ladies out of their house.”

And then the other 25% is civil litigation with real estate transactions, where deals go bad or somebody doesn't disclose something. And it's been a great ride.

Melissa: I mean, do you like the work you do?

Eileen: I love the civil litigation, and that's why I hired a bunch of people to do the UD. The eviction work isn't my favorite. It's the real meaty stuff that I like spending a week in trial and winning. Getting into the real stuff and finding the needle in the haystack that's going to win it all. That's the stuff that I like.

Melissa: Oh, it's so good. Well, I know you're good at it. I mean, first of all, the reason I asked if you liked it, I haven't ever really asked you that before, because I feel the passion on you when we get together and I get to hear about what's going on.

I mean, you're so passionate about your work. So, I figured you were going to say yes. But it's neat to see how good you are at it, and how much you care about the client experience and all of it. OK, well, the reason I wanted to have you on… there are two reasons.

We're going to do another podcast; it's going to talk about the second thing. But the one thing, I said this to you at the last retreat that we had, the last Strategic Planning retreat, it constantly blows me away how much you get done in a short amount of time.

It is not normal. Though I think it could be for people. And that's why I wanted to have you on. Maybe something you say here with our conversation will help click in a way for a listener on how they can start getting better, faster results. Because you move quickly.

But it's not carelessly. It's not just quick start kind of… I don't know if you know what a “quick start” is, but quick starts are people who just fly by the seat of their pants. They make big moves. They tend to leave a bit of a wake behind them that people have to pick up or clean up. And that's not what I'm talking about with you.

You are very deliberate and move very quickly. I don't know if there's anything off the top you want to say about that or if that's just how you've always been. I think we can have a conversation. There's going to be some takeaways for people.

Eileen: I think that that's how I've always been. I mean, obviously, I don't remember as a little, little kid. But I've wanted to be a lawyer since I was, in middle school. I had different visions of that over the years, but everything I did from probably, obviously not middle school, but everything from high school on I did everything specifically to get to the point that I'm at.

I took Japanese in high school because I thought that that would be the area of law… Because it was so prominent at the time. If I knew Japanese… I could be a business lawyer, know Japanese, and I could work in a law firm.

I left California to go away to school because I knew I wanted it. And I knew if I stayed, I wouldn't. Probably because you go to the beach and have a good time and not go to school. So, everything I've always done had a purpose. I think that I was always that way. I always just wanted to be better. I wanted more.

Failure is not an option. I mean, I had a childhood that where people didn't think that maybe I would go far. I had a teacher that really took me under her wings because of the circumstances of life. And I was probably those kids that you think, “Oh, they're just going to do off.”

And it's funny, because I had best friends that had what I thought was the picture-perfect family, and they're nowhere nearly as successful as I am. I just had that drive just to keep pushing and be better and have more. I wanted something big for myself.

Melissa: Yeah. The word that comes to mind with you is “tenacious”. There's a tenacity about you that is it's almost unrivaled in many ways. And maybe that has a lot to do with what you're talking about, upbringing and mindset as you were raised, that there's a tenacity about you that I believe you're going to get whatever you want to do.

You make me believe you just by the way you are, the way you think, and how you show up. There are a lot of people that say that they want certain things and they set goals, and I don't believe them. It's not that I don't believe in them, that they're capable of it. I don't believe that they're going to do what it takes to achieve their dreams. I believe you. When you say it, when you line yourself up with it, it's just a tenacity. It's really, really cool.

Eileen: And the funny thing is, what I have now is not anything I ever wanted. When I went out on my own, I just wanted enough that I could have a good life and not work hard; chuckle there, because now look, I work really hard.

And I remember that first year, I went with my friend Bibi to one of her things that she put on, and it was all a bunch of millionaire women talking. I remember saying, “I don't vibe with this. I don't want a million-dollar company. I don't want all that. I just want to have…” We built the #building my lifestyle, and that's how I was looking at it.

But then everything just came so fast and so organically that now I can't turn back because I really like the lifestyle I live. I like first class and the lounge.

Melissa: The lounge is new. Eileen is a monster with the lounge now, the airport lounges. I love it. You are pretty pleased with what you've created, yes?

Eileen: Yes. Yes, I am.

Melissa: But I just want to make it clear. I didn't know if people would think that you feel trapped because you've become accustomed to a certain lifestyle. Because you have worked your booty off to create what you have right now. And what you have is something remarkable, and it gives you a lot of means in your own world to be able to do things that you never even dreamed that you could do.

So, when you said, “I can't go back because I like what I have,” I don't think you meant that you feel trapped in it. It's just that. Like, “Oh, okay. Didn't know that this was a thing.”

Eileen: Oh, yeah, for sure. Like I said, when I initially thought it out, doing the math, “Oh, if I did this many hours a day, I can make this much. And it's just me. And that's all good.” I think they always say, the problem with when people get raises, is then they up their lifestyle. And that way they have to continue to work the ladder because they're so used to it.

But building it the way I have, even if I had the means then, I wouldn't have been able because I didn’t have the support. I think the support here is what's key. And this is the first year and a half that I've been able to take vacations without having to think about work.

Where if it was just me, I would have never been able to do that, even if I had the means. I think the support of the team is critical.

Melissa: Yeah. Gosh, what a learning journey you've been on with that. I mean, so is everybody that builds a business. But it does seem like you've done a lot of hard work on the people side of the business. And it feels like now, just in the last three months maybe… Tell me if you see this differently… there is something that has clicked into place, or clicking into place, that is different enough that you can smell the next level of your firm in terms of ease and flow.

Not that the work is easy, but ease and flow and support, like you mentioned, and freedom. Do you agree?

Eileen: I would say probably, in the last year or so. I think that there was a couple of critical hires in the last year that have started to work that. And then I think obviously in the last four or five months, we've done massive hiring. But it's also internal growth with me as a manager. And understanding, like you said before, I'm unique, everybody's not going to be me.

And internally realizing that I can't expect that. Because I think that was always the more disappointing thing for me as we grow. Why isn't everybody else doing it as hard as I'm doing it? Or have the same way that they do it?

I think that that's a lot of enlightenment that I'm learning through your team and the other team coaches that I've kind of hired to help me through this. Because I think “people” is the hardest part about growing the business.

Melissa: I agree. I think most people would agree with you on that. And for those listening, the other post that she's talking about is Tara Gronhovd. Tara has been on the podcast several times at this point. And we encourage… There's always a point with private clients that it makes sense to start working with her.

And because she's so good at helping with team dynamics and helping the owner and others, if they have sessions with her. But helping the owner really understand how to connect with the team, and how to improve the culture and communication, and all that.

I mean, you've been deep in this work with her, as have I in my own company. What would you say is just some of the best things that came out of working with Tara so far?

Eileen: I think really having the one on one when I'm having a more difficult time with a particular issue or person in the firm, and her helping me see where they're coming from so that we can bridge that gap. She's done such a good job with that, to help me grow and be able to bridge the gap, because there are certain staff and people where we don't align 100%. And I have to figure it out. It can't be “my way or the highway” because then there won't be anybody here.

Melissa: Yeah, exactly. Actually, this sort of comes full circle with the impetus for this call. That you were in it, you were in the thick of some things... I don't know. Maybe it was a couple of months ago now, maybe not even that long ago.

But you reached out to Tara and I, both, and we got on a call with you. So, the three of us were on a call. I don't know what you're willing to share about why that call needed to happen, or why you reached out, and then maybe some of the things that came out of that call.

Eileen: I'll be happy to, yeah. I think it was towards the end of May. There are only two attorneys here; it's me and my associate that kind of runs the eviction department. She got sick and went into the hospital. It obviously ended a lot longer than this call, but it was probably about two weeks in of that. Then my paralegal quit, with little to no notice; basically, on Monday she said that her last day was on Friday.

One thing is that I have my cases, but now I don't have a paralegal to help me usher the cases along. I don't know where all the cases are. And I'm handling all of the associate’s cases, and trying to handle all of the admin and the other stuff that I have to deal with.

It really was a breaking point. I don't know, I was in my office crying and I just was so broken. I just sent this long email about how I felt like a failure and that I just didn't know what to do anymore. I think it was the lowest point. I mean, I laugh every now and then say, “Oh, I'm just going to shut my doors.” But this was a real true… I don't know, I just was so overwhelmed. I don't think I ever felt that overwhelmed.

So, I had sent that long email; I sent it to you and my HR attorney and to Tara. And you and Tara were great. You got on the phone at 7am the next morning, and we were able to talk through it and put together thoughts about how to handle this.

It was more of ‘you're not the failure;’ the fact that they left or they're sick is not my fault. But what the action plan was to get out of feeling overwhelmed. Yeah, I mean, it was a really important call because it really shifted the game, especially because my associate was out another three weeks after that.

Melissa: Yeah. I mean, okay, so do you remember some of the things that came out of that call that you were going to do, the action plan, so to speak?

Eileen: The only one that really sticks out is the one that I'm really terrible about doing. It was the Monday mapping, mapping out the day. And really having a thought process instead of just going into the day and just being; because I've never been good at that. And I kind of just started really coming in and knowing, ‘okay, these are the things that need to be handled on this side.’

And just doing some, not necessarily damage control, but reaching out to clients, because they weren't getting responses. And then just holding some, because of the delays and people getting in touch because the associate was out. After about a week of that, I was cooking and moving. I just felt good.

I was like, “Yeah, yeah, I got it all done, got it all done, got it all done.” And by the time she came back, I was like, “Yeah, I got it.”

Melissa: Also, though, that was right in the window where you knew you had to make some key hires. And I feel like you knew that was going to happen anyway, but you really put your foot on the gas. Or maybe it was already on the gas.

Eileen: And we had had our foot on the gas for a while.

Melissa: Like hunting.

Eileen: Yeah. It was just getting the right candidates. Because we had been plugging through a few, and coincidentally enough, the big batch came all at once. So, we were able to kind of interview.

I mean, one of the hires we had interviewed a couple weeks prior, but due to surgeries he couldn't start until the new hire. So, we had one. And then, I think the decision out of that came, instead of another regular admin, is I wanted an executive assistant; that came out of that.

“You know what? I think that a big load would be lifted if I had somebody that was making my appointments and making my calls, instead of me flushing them out to different people. If she's hired, then I'm super excited.”

Melissa: Yeah. I'm sort of trying to think back… I just remember, on that call there were certain things... I mean, you were in the middle of all the things you were in the middle of, that you had to… There was a certain amount of reactivity that you had to deal with at that point.

But also from that call, there were certain things to help you be proactive as much as possible. And I mean, God, Eileen, I'm thinking back. I think we talked to you on a Tuesday or Wednesday. And on Saturday you had a full day of filming booked for something you were doing and scripts needed to be tightened up. And I was like, there was so much prep for that. Seriously, everything was coming down on you at the same time.

And I remember at our retreat… There was a call we had after that, and then there was the actual Strategic Planning retreat in June. So, about a month after that call with Tara. All of the things that you had gotten done, that you hadn't necessarily planned on getting done… There was plenty of that too. Plenty of things you knew you were going to get done and you got them done.

And then there were things that you did that stemmed from that call, that I was shocked. It was all done. I shouldn't be shocked because that is literally how you roll. But I didn't think it was going to be possible for you to get everything done. And when you showed up to the retreat, it was done. All of it was done.

By the way, I think those four people were… You already had decided on the four people. It was all literally done. They hadn't started yet; you had an onboarding process, but you really, really tightened it up.

Eileen: And no, we didn't really have an onboarding process.

Melissa: Oh, okay. Well, tell them what you did.

Eileen: Well, I was doing all the onboarding and Giselle said, “Stop, you better not do that ever again.” And so again, it's a lot of problems of things that are in my head and being able to get them out to other people. What I was looking at, what we did, is we created, on Office 365, an onboarding platform. And how that came about is… I wanted a systematic way to be able to transfer this to my COO, and having her have all the things that are in my head, right? The list of things.

Like when a new person hires, I'm the one that adds them to Adobe. I'm the one that reaches out and gets the signature block. I'm the one that adds them to this software. I'm the one that does all that. And I don't have a list for that. I just do it, right?

So, I wanted something in place for that. And I saw on SharePoint that they had this onboarding template. I kind of looked at it and kind of tinkered with it, and it didn't really work the way I wanted to. I used a VA, buying time, and I reached out to them and said, “This is what I want to do. This is what I'm looking for. Is this something you can do?” They're like, “Sure.”

And they started tinkering with it, and throwing these out... And then I started looking at other HR onboarding platforms to see what they have and what they do. And the end result was amazing. We have this on SharePoint, and once they have the on hire, you add them in and it creates the tasks for all of us internally to do. So, Maria has her list of the things that she needs to do.

And then it sets up tasks for them for setting up your voicemail and setting up this. But also, what they did, they created the preboarding experience. So, there's an email that goes out on Lawmatics that has a welcome video from me… Which I don't like video, but I'm starting to do it… that says, “Hi, I'm Eileen Kendall. Welcome. We're so happy to have you,” and all these things. And it has our core values, and it has our handbook, and it gives them all the forms ahead of time.

And almost every single one of the new hires had everything done and completed prior to coming on. And then, it's also just a place for all of the resources that they have. I had every team member give a welcome. So, there's a picture of the team member, and “Welcome to Kendall Law. If you need this, this is what I do.”

This was the biggest onboarding we've ever done. I've hired one or two, most everybody does too, but we literally onboarded four people and it was smooth. It was so nice. Now there were little hiccups here and there, but compared to the way it's been in the past…

I also sat down and created training modules. So, I sat down with everything I could think of and created an outline. Like if I'm going to sit down with a paralegal, these are every single thing I'm going to touch. And I did the same for Maria when she sat down on the system, so that there was nothing missed.

Because the experience with that loss of a paralegal was she felt good at the very beginning, and then felt that she wasn't trained anymore. And that's because we were busy. I just I want to avoid that. And if you don't learn from your mistakes, what are you doing?

Okay, well then I'm going to make this experience better. It's still hard because we're still busy. And the fact that it may take two or three weeks to train somebody on something is a little hard and frustrating. Because I think you should get it. But we're working on it. And I think that everybody so far has had really great things to say about this first part of this onboarding process.

Melissa: Yeah. And for anybody listening, when she says “Maria”, that is her COO. Now my memory is jogged. That was the big thing at the retreat. It was like, “You've got to be kidding me.” You showed us the onboarding Office 365, where it all lives, and my mouth was on the floor. Because, yes, it is awesome. But it was created in the last month during you being crushed by everything. And this got done, too.

Eileen: I didn't do it though. I just gave ideas. It was more than that, I mean, the final pieces all came together in the last month, but it was been something that they've been working on probably for two or three. But I can't take any credit that I did all the hard work.

Melissa: Well, okay, wait, but this is important. So, this is partially why I wanted to have you on. There are plenty of owners out there, and firms out there, that I get to work with that they really get stuck. They don't get the stuff done. And there is something about you and your team that you get stuff done. It doesn't sit It's not on your list of things to do later.

Now, listen, every once in a while, for the most part, there is something about some of the things we talked about earlier, your tenacity, but you also have the gall to just go for things. You feel the fear and you do it anyway with certain things.

So, part of it, you're saying, “Yeah, it was in the works,” but it could have died though, considering everything else that was going on. It could have gotten the back seat to be finished, to be wrapped up. I mean, everybody knows that the hardest part of a project is typically, the last 20% of it, is getting it right. And that is some of what you were dealing with in this last month.

And I guess I'm wondering, just through conversation, it feels like there's something to be learned from someone like you who does push. I know you're not the one executing everything, and maybe that alone is a lesson for people listening. You can't do it all by yourself.

You had a team. The VA team that you're mentioning, which is Bibi Goldstein's team... She's been on the podcast “Buying time.” You use their services. So, they were working on this. What are your thoughts, now that I've said what I've said, if anything?

Eileen: Well, I didn't have a choice. I didn't want to have to onboard, because what was the purpose of it then? I don't imagine that I'm going to have that many more hires. Why do all that work and not have it in place for the hires that I knew I was hiring, right?

So, it was really, ‘you need to have this done by this date because we're onboarding four people.’ That was the whole thing. Because it would probably be, not that I'm not going to hire one or two or three more later, but this was the time.

This was the time to have it, when I'm transferring the duties, that I was doing all along that I shouldn't have been doing, to my COO, that needed to have a way to do it where I wouldn't get frustrated or mad that she did something wrong. Not mad, I don't get mad at her. But because it's in my head, I had to be able to be able to transfer that to her. And this was the way to do it.

Melissa: Yeah. Okay. Well, before we pushed record we were talking a little bit about the amount that you get done. It’s insane compared to most people. And I have a pretty good vantage because of all the people I work with, so I can honestly say that. And you're right. In many cases, I've listened, you're like, “I didn't have a choice,” but it's just different.

You operate differently than many, many people. And so, when you mentioned some of the things you were saying beforehand, “I don't waste time,” …

Can you talk about how sometimes you observe others and they're not spending their time efficiently, and you really work hard to do so? I don't know if you want to talk about that a little bit.

Eileen: Yeah, sure. For example, just in general, this morning I came in and I know Mondays are usually a crazy day. And as I was sorting through my hundred emails, my list just got longer and longer. And by one o'clock I had all 12 things crossed off my list, filtered through all the emails, and did some training with the new paralegal.

Because I'm leaving to go out of the country on Saturday, and I just have to get all the work done. And to me, there's no option. If I don't do it, who's going to do it? My associate thanked me for covering for her. Absolutely, but who else would have if I hadn't, right?

And it's more like, I'm efficient. I'm all about getting the work done at the highest quality, the best way, but being efficient. And I kind of equate that to a trial that I just did, where the plaintiff's counsel just didn't know even how to do it. It literally was a trial, a bench trial with four witnesses, that took six days because he was so disorganized, and just the way that he presented… It was like, really?

Why wouldn't you just have streamlined it and gotten to the same thing by cutting out 20 minutes? Time is money, and you want to do it in the best and efficient way as possible. I've been doing this for a long time and maybe that's the benefit.

I see that in people drafting documents. Some of the attorneys that I work with take so long to draft a document. Again, maybe it's because I've been doing this for so long that it's just something that comes first nature; I can do it in half the time they do it. But again, I'm trying to be good and delegate, and it sometimes gets challenging because I just want to get stuff done.

Not to pat my own back, but I'm a very good attorney and I do a very good job. I think you said something about that tenacity and that passion. I get that comment a lot, like, “Oh my God, you just love to be here.” Yes. Or even when I talk about my cases.

I'm very good at what I do, but I don't do it at the sake of belaboring it. I just don't think there's a point to it.

Melissa: Listen, Eileen, I'm trying to pull out either the things that you can't see, because it's just the way you operate... You're saying there's just no option, but if you weren't leaving the country this weekend, you'd still be the version of you that is executing the way that you're executing right now. I don't know. Maybe you disagree with that. But that's just how you roll.

You mentioned earlier, sometimes you see people flit around. When you see that, do you almost feel for them? Because they don't know. They only know the way they operate, right? It's easy for you to see it because of the way you operate. You can see other people who aren't as efficient, and they get in their own way and they flit around. I don't know if you want to give a definition. What does that mean to you?

Eileen: Just like la-la around the office, having a chitchat or whatever. I don't feel for them. I feel frustrated when they feel overwhelmed or complain about the workload. Because in my mind, if you were doing something different… Maybe you manage your time well… but there's a lot of that.

And I'll tell you, there are some days that I'll be around like, “Hey, what's going on? You want to see pictures of my dog?” I have days like that. But because I know that I have such a heavy workload of everything I have to do, there's very little of that because I need to get it done.

And I don't want that feeling of, ‘oh crap, I didn't get to everything today’ because I wasted time with my feet on my desk. But when I have a busy week… I have 10 consultations scheduled this week. I don't have time. I've got to get everything else done. So, I'm not chit-chatting around the office.

Yeah, I think that that's the thing. I don't feel bad for them. It's more of a frustration that they don't see that that is probably the cause of them not getting to all the things that they want to get to, or feeling overwhelmed.

Melissa: Yeah, exactly. I definitely see that. And I think you're talking about the people in your office, is that right?

Eileen: Yes.

Melissa: Yeah, okay. I see that in other law firm. It’s just human behavior. But lawyers are a particular type, and most of them really do try to be efficient, and they work hard to be efficient. But they have their own blockers, their own barriers to it. And it is the same thing, where they feel this sense of overwhelm.

And listen, there's a time and a place where it's nothing that you could have done differently. Like the day that we talked to you and you were really overwhelmed with all the things that were happening. Those were circumstances, that were happening, that were creating a very overwhelming position for you.

But there are times where people, they live in constant overwhelm and they do not use their time the way that they could use their time. Just for listeners, this is not just her team at her office. This is a chance for all of us to look in the mirror and see where maybe we're doing that. Where are we creating our own delays?

Sometimes I work with people that don't get their Rocks done. And there has been a couple of times that your Rocks haven't been done, but you have pushed hard at it. Or there's a new circumstance that made it so that that a Rock couldn't be done or something. It's never, ever because you sat on your hands until you were up against the deadline, and so then you tried and you just couldn't make it.

You work. You put in the work to get the stuff done that you say you're going to do. People want to be like that, and they haven't figured that out yet for themselves. I was interested what this conversation would turn into. Is there a takeaway for people, or is it just inspiring?

Eileen: You mentioned that before, and I took a tone. My husband… and that's the mentality, right? I'm paying you good money for this advice. Why throw the advice away? Make it happen. I have internal reasons I hired you, because I wanted that guidance. Your guidance is what's getting me to those places.

And the only way to do that is to do the things you tell me to do. We butt heads and we fight and don't agree on certain things when it comes to some of that, but at the end of the day, I'm going to do what you tell me to do because that's what I paid you for, for that advice. Because I'm a lawyer that doesn't have that same thought process of making it happen.

I remember I made my first big hire because of The Circle, “Just go do it. You're not going to regret it.” Not that I didn't have a couple of small hires, but this was the first hire that I was just so afraid doing. And I think it's a matter of my personality and the way that I do things. But it's also, why would I go through all this trouble to meet with you quarterly and have these calls with you if I'm not going to make it happen? It seems silly.

Melissa: Well, you certainly do that, and you do not back off of goals. I know there was one time, there was one year, it was for 2023, that goal for the year, the revenue goal that I think you backed off of. You were pretty set on it.

Eileen: Well, you wanted a pretty high number and I didn't want it. I just didn't think it was possible.

Melissa: Pretty high is subjective, because you've already blown it out this year.

Eileen: Well, I know. But for that year, given the circumstances, I just… Again, thing is, you want to set goals that you can meet or beat, otherwise it's defeating. And that particular year I thought that the number you had picked… I'm going to push to get to that goal. And it's really disheartening when I don't.

Because until last year, I think… I don't know if we hit it. I think we still came a little shy last year. That's defeating and I hate that. I don't want that. I want to know that I can do it. And there are certain things that I can't control when it comes to the revenue, because I have clients that don't necessarily pay. We certainly billed it; they just didn't pay it. But this year, we've got it.

Melissa: Yeah. Oh, yeah, you do. Well, okay. So, wait, go back. First of all, I just want to make it super clear for everybody. You said, “The number that I picked.” I don't just pick a number. Strategically you do the math forward, and you figure out what's possible and what would be possible if you got certain things into place, etc.

And I actually don't remember back then. We worked out the math. You did feel strongly about… Because you didn't want to feel deflated at the end of the year, you wanted to feel a win. And that part, that is interesting. Actually, that is not something that everybody deals with.

Because I really don't believe that if you set a goal and you fall short, that it's a fail. But that's the way you would have interpreted that; that it was a fail. And I was like, “It's not a failure, because look at how far you've come.” And by December 31st, for the year of 2023 to hit this number… Okay, well, let's just say you fall short. But then, in February of 2024, your 12-month revenue probably beats what you had set originally for 2023.

To me, it's just not a fail. It's just a way to line yourself up. Now, what has been super cool is, because of that, you know yourself best and you know your psychology, and so this year we did two goals. One is the goal that you're really working with the team and lining yourself up and systems and all that.

But we have done the projections to figure out what we think would be possible if you actually did implement all the things you were going to implement. You're even on track for that.

Eileen: I think we'll get close. I don't know. Based on what we're at, if we have a certain client that pays us what we owe, we're there. There's no doubt. But we're definitely going to be way closer to it than what we're exceeding the other. We're so ahead of the stated goal, to the team, that they're getting extra incentives based on that. So, we're definitely killing it this year.

Melissa: You're right. If this client pays. But even if they don't, it's not that far off from the big goal, right?

Eileen: No, we'll be really close.

Melissa: Really, really close. And if they pay, you'll probably be pushed over it. Basically, your more conservative goal is $400,000-$500,000 less than the bigger goal. Correct?

Eileen: Yes.

Melissa: And the fact that you'll be that much over of the goal… I mean, I think for you psychologically, what we figured out, was this works really well for you to have goal A and then a bell-ringer goal. On top of that, you have a standard goal and then the bell-ringing goal. That's worked really well for you psychologically.

And you guys have done such a good job with integrating the team to rally around that goal that you shared with them and that you're reaching for. And it's really impressive. But I love that we do that with you. We don't just do that with everybody. But that's, psychologically, what helps you and makes a difference, and it's working.

And so, if it's inspiring to anybody else, you could do that. Have a goal, but then have a goal that… Do the math. That's the other thing I want to make sure people understand. We do not just pick a goal for you, and you don't just pick a goal. If a client comes to us and they have a number in their head, all right, let's do the math and see how this is going to work out.

Is this possible? But we do work to set goals strategically. And the way that you really like to look at this, is there are two goals and we think we can hit the second one, but the first one is really what matters the most. And gosh, you guys are on fire this year. It's working.

And I think that the psychology of it is part of… It's a piece of the recipe, or an ingredient in the recipe, not the whole thing.

Eileen: Because I think how that came about is you had done all the math to get to that high number. I was very uncomfortable with that high number based on a couple of factors. And some of those factors have played out.

We lost a fairly big client, and so our numbers are definitely going to be smaller towards the end of the year based on just seeing what's being billed and paid since losing that client.

But I'm still confident that we're going to be really close to that bigger goal. But it made me not have a heart attack to think about trying to reach that. I equate to, I used to run half marathons and I would set a goal. And I'd be devastated and cry at the finish line when I didn't meet that goal. So, it's the same thing to me.

I set a goal. If I don't meet it, it is, to me, definitely a failure. It's not like, “Oh, well look at it. You just ran 13.1 miles. So what? I didn't hit the 2.20.”  

Melissa: Oh my gosh. Well, that is something I'm definitely going to try to keep working with you on, because I think that makes it harder to celebrate how far you've come.

Eileen: Maybe.

Melissa: I mean, you've come so far. It's awe inspiring to think about how far you've come and how quickly. By the way, that is not a journey for the faint of heart, as you well know. I mean, the really fast growth you've had to deal with is…

Eileen: in three and a half years. I certainly pinch myself all the time. My COO, Maria, is like, “You've got to be so proud that you've done all this in this short period of time.” And I don't take that for granted. I never thought in a million years that this is where we'd be, and here we are.

Melissa: Yeah. This isn't the end of the road. This is in many ways, not just the beginning, but there's just a lot of potential that you are literally fulfilling before our eyes. It's really cool.

Eileen: Yeah, and I'm super excited. Things have been, in the last few years that we've been working together, about working on the house, right? Getting the systems in place. And I'm super excited that I think we're just about there. That I can now switch to Rocks about marketing and doing things that I've not done in the past. Because we have our house in order.

And really, for everybody listening, Melissa's it. If you don't know what you're doing this is the person to call. Because I used to run around with my head cut off and not have any sense of anything, and now I do.

Melissa: Yes, you certainly do. Thank you for saying that. Thank you. It helps to have a party to work with that works as hard as you do. So, it's really great. You are phenomenal. Your team... There are certain team members I've known that are phenomenal. And now, it's just getting more and more in my face about… Because I don't work directly with your team as much as Maria, your COO, does. Giselle has a little bit more of that, and Tara certainly does.

But it's just so obvious how leveled up everything is becoming in your firm, in terms of quality and buy-in and culture. It just seems like all cylinders are starting to run. It's really cool. Yeah. Hey, thank you for coming on here.

Eileen: Thanks for having me.

Melissa: This has been fun. We're going to have you on again. We'll talk about something else.

Eileen: Sounds great.

Melissa: Thanks so much, Eileen.

Thanks everyone for tuning in. We'll see you here next Tuesday.

Hey, you may not know this, but there's a free guide for a process I teach called Monday Map/Friday Wrap. If you go to VelocityWork.com, it's all yours. It's about how to plan your time and honor your plans. So, that week over week, more work that moves the needle is getting done in less time. Go to VelocityWork.com to get your free copy.

Thank you for listening to The Law Firm Owner Podcast. If you're ready to get clearer on your vision, data, and mindset, then head over to VelocityWork.com where you can plug in to Quarterly Strategic Planning, with accountability and coaching in between. This is the work that creates Velocity.

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